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Feature: Why our hospitals simply aren't working New Message

brandy  Posted: 11/03/2009 18:56

<p>I agree with everything I've 'read' in the above report.</p> <p>Some of our hospitals are 'working' excellently...the problem is that those who are 'working' the best, happen to be private.....and have the happy facility of 'employing' the best consultants....for a significant time !</p> <p>There are many things I want to say regarding the above....I could write for hours......but I will preface any future statements by affirming.....EVERYBODY DESERVES AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE AND SURVIVE....NO MATTER IF THEY COME FROM 'FOXROCK OR TALLAGHT' .....!!</p> <p>Unfortunately....I believe,&nbsp; Ireland has become a country that has a rich, spendthrift, greedy, D4 society ( just watch tv3 etc)....that will pretend to care to 'africa' while 'hiding' their riches away from IRISH certain rock groups.)</p> <p>I said this before.......i'm getting angry I wish you all well !!</p>

sammi  Posted: 14/03/2009 09:23

<p>Mr O&rsquo;Keeffe, who works at the Mater and Temple Street Hospitals in Dublin, stresses that despite what Prof Brendan Drumm might say, there is not enough capacity in the hospital system. It needs to be transformed by making it more efficient and increasing capacity.</p> <p>&ldquo;By and large patients are regarded as a nuisance in the public hospital system. They get in the way of running the place.&rdquo;</p> <p>&ldquo;There is no-one overseeing things. For example, basic stuff like why don&rsquo;t clinics start on time? Why are they not at full capacity? Why are the secretaries not there on time? Why are operating lists not starting on time? Why does everyone get an outpatient appointment at the same time?&rdquo;</p> <p>&ldquo;There is inefficiency at every level and we are all at fault - doctors, nurses, porters, paramedical staff. It is all dysfunctional and the system has become very demoralised.&rdquo;</p> <p>&ldquo;We need to start running public hospitals properly. Go back and start getting people working properly; get them in on time, find out why the phone isn&rsquo;t being answered, why the desk isn&rsquo;t being manned, why the clinic isn&rsquo;t running on time, why the doctor is not there. Like an army, you need all the soldiers doing the fighting. You need to cut down on the administration part of it and anybody who is not seeing patients should be asked to justify their existence. If you tackled these issues you would transform the system.&rdquo;</p> <p>Mr O&rsquo;Keeffe says many of the consultants who have switched over to the new "public only" type of contract already had little or no private practice under the old system in any case.</p> <p>Hear hear, I agree totally.</p> <p>But what is MR O Keefe going to do about it. Is he going to go public and fight the system for change. I would say the vast majority of us agree with him but we have no voice. Who is going to lobby for us?</p> <p>Everyone knows the HSE is powerful. It answers to no one. If you have a complaint... too bad. they can do what they like, and get away with it. They know if you are in the public health system you haven't got the money to fight them or follow through with a complaint. Because it's a civil matter in the eyes of the law.</p>

nk1  Posted: 15/03/2009 16:25

<p>I want Minister Harney to offer Mr O'Keeffe the job being bungled by Prof Brendan Drum. This is the clearest and most understanding piece I have read about our health service in the last couple of years. Finally someone who sees what is happening, what is not being done and has some practial soulitions to offer.</p>

ABSyRD  Posted: 16/03/2009 14:22

<p>No evaluation or critical appraisal of the reality of the HSE!</p> <p>No organisational research of any consequence!</p> <p>Again more anecdotal evidence!</p> <p>We once had a real public health system pre common contract. Money does not buy committed clinical leadership.</p>

ger  Posted: 16/03/2009 14:51

<p>Well done to Mr O Keeffe, every word he says is true He has identified so many inefficencies and they are only the tip of the iceberg. It's a great pity there are not more people like him working in the Health service and willing to speak up and say ENOUGH is ENOUGH.</p>

Normalperson  Posted: 16/03/2009 16:08

<p>I totally agree with both the article and comments, except I am not sure of what this Michael O'Leary (type) might do his victims, sorry patients, maybe he would charge everyone for using the loo?</p>

CariC  Posted: 16/03/2009 17:12

<p>I agree with many of Mr O'Keeffe's comments. I have a terminal illness and have spent time in both the private and public systems here in Ireland and latterly referred to specialists outside Ireland. This is the first time I have seen a medical professional cite the inefficiencies of other medical personnel. Over the past 2 years I have been shocked by ineffectual medical personnel and in some cases just downright incompetent medical personnel. Incompetent because they are not mindful of what they are doing, do not read the files in front of them or make effort to review and properly analyse information. That's my experience of some of the doctors, consultants and professors. Some of the nurses now think that caring for patients is beneath them, that in fact it is not their job. What's more worrying is that you question these people at your peril. Most certainly from experience, they do not want to be questioned or have their judgement called into question. What a combination you have when you get all of this in a hospital together with the cut and thrust of normal hospital running. Change requires a massive effort by those working in the health service, it also requires integrity and speaking the truth, warts and all.</p>

Claire  Posted: 16/03/2009 19:48

<p>How refreshing to again read the truth from someone working at the coalface. But who will listen?</p> <p>Will Mr O'Keefe's words take their place alongside those of John Crown and Orla Hardiman who both spoke as sanely and honestly on these pages over the past couple of years. I write an article myself here about the cost versus the price of the health service. Each article is followed by a flurry of activity from people who voice their agreement just as we are now, but nothing happens. I believe as long as Mary Harney and Brendan Drumm are in their present positions, arrogantly ignoring what's happening on the ground, nothing will change. They have been conspicuous by their absence recently as they don't even appear to feel they need to try to justify their decisions to the people anymore. There is no political will to change anything. A Michael O'Leary or Willie Walshe (ex Aer Lingus, now British Airways) type figure has been suggested before. It was proposed by the public through the Liveline programme when there were porta-cabins and all that was needed to run them offered to take pressure off the A&amp;E Dept in The Mater Hospital. The donation was refused and yet again, nobody listened. Has anybody with power got the courage to do what needs to be done? Would somebody please listen to those at the coalface who speak honestly, have no vested interest and are genuinely interested in patient care?</p> <p>Thank you Mr O'Keefe for speaking out. But I fear nobody is listening.</p>

Broken  Posted: 16/03/2009 22:17

<p>I want Mary Harney OUT! I want Brendan Drum OUT! the Irish were told that Ms. Harney earned more than the Prime Minister? President of france? And Brendan boyo was earning more than President Obama by Sinn Fein Ard Feis, recently, who shouted from the tree tops about that! I was aghast, but apparantly not even that info stirred the nation to appoplexy.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Concerned patient  Posted: 17/03/2009 00:17

<p>On the shortage of beds in the public system - last year I needed a small operation on my ear. First public consultation, 2 year waiting list, decided to go private- 2 weeks + &euro;150 for consultation. On the day I checked in there was no private bed available and I was offerred a public bed which I accepted. Moral of the story Dr O'Keeffe, bed shortage is not the problem but the racket consultants operate to garner private practice. If a Michael O'Leary takes over the HSE, consultants should be first on his hit list, not some hapless nurse with a clipboard.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

sammi  Posted: 19/03/2009 00:11

<p>caricC</p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Incompetent because they are not mindful of what they are doing, do not read the files in front of them or make effort to review and properly analyse information. That's my experience of some of the doctors, consultants and professors. Some of the nurses now think that caring for patients is beneath them, that in fact it is not their job. What's more worrying is that you question these people at your peril. Most certainly from experience, they do not want to be questioned or have their judgement called into question.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">Well said and so true. a lot of the staff are too busy chatting about their social life and working on their little social structure they have going on to be bothered with doing their job - MINDING PEOPLE IN NEED.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">there should be so much public outcry over Mary Harney and drumm on the streets so that they have to be removed. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">i sent an email to M Harney's office outlining the appalling way my husband was recently treated ( see concern over hse bonuses - new hope for chronic pain sufferers) and i didn't even get an acknowledgement.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">i called my local TD who was in dublin and he called to the house in person to see my husband and got us results, he even phoned me a number of times when he was in Dublin, and again after the operation to see if there was any improvement.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">Fine Fail out Fine Gael in i say.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">irish consultants are paid 3 times as much as their foreign counterparts. how is that happening.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">pay should be related to performance, if you can't perform you should be gotten rid of, simple. these guys need to learn the value of their jobs. they think they are some kind of royalty, they are so protected.or at least never be allowed to get promoted above your capabilities. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">people's lives are dependent on this service. it's not a road side cafe. it's a health system. they don't even have a proper restaurant service. i've been in a big hospital abroad and they had a proper catering system to equal a big hotel and a proper restaurant. not these stupid little over priced coffee shops where you can't even sit down as there's not enough room for staff and visitors to get dinner.</span></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 19/03/2009 02:16

<p>I believe that Brendan Drumm and Mary Harney think they are infalible. We, all the public patients who far outweight Private Health Insurance are to go by their way, or&nbsp;literally speaking be hit by&nbsp;the highway. (e.g. wait and die).</p> <p>For years now that's the way it's been and always will as long as they both are in power to make human beings suffer unnecessarially with their illness which in a lot of cases becomes worse due to delayed intervention. My Grandchild waited for this Treatment Fund but it was longer than the 6 months as promised. His outcome ended with impaired loss of hearing-had they gone in and did what they should have done, I believe his outcome would have been less impaired.</p> <p>Would readers here please bear in mind of a long long time ago there lived a Nurse who was sainted. She's called "NIGHTINGALE" she gave a pure dedication of herself to the sick, the helpless and the infirm. Also what about the Hippocratic Oath still sworn in by Doctors who graduate, if it was really true they would cut their hands off as was done in centurys past.</p> <p>I agree entirely with what Mr. O'Keefe says particularly the paragraph <span style="color: #0000ff;">"The attitute now appears to be that&nbsp;public hospitals would run better if there were no patients in them" <span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #0000ff;">He said all so caringly, if only other Doctors would take a </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">Leaf from&nbsp;his opinion.</span> We would not have to fight for our rights,&nbsp;there seems to be nobody listening&nbsp;to all those organisations&nbsp;who campaing for medical&nbsp;rights WE HAVE A DREADFUL MEDICAL FIASCO. Come&nbsp;April Budget if Brian Lenihan takes on board what Brendan Drumm said To Cut more funding on&nbsp;Frontline Services within the HSE, where will it end? </span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><img title="Yell" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-yell.gif" border="0" alt="Yell" />&nbsp;<img title="Yell" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-yell.gif" border="0" alt="Yell" />&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></p>

brandy  Posted: 19/03/2009 16:44

<p>CariC,</p> <p>Sorry....been away for a while....well, God bless you for even taking time to post....which is 100% correct. I hope you're being looked after? Sorry again.</p> <p>I've said it before....and others have said similar.....those at the top (especially in depressed times) will 'baton down the hatches' and protect themselves from the growing tumult outside....which tumult we might yet see here!</p> <p>The premise is simply this; 'money makes the world go round'....and everything, everything (especially HEALTH) dependent on it's EQUAL DISTRIBUTION and stewardship! The problem in Ireland (as elsewhere) is, that we either have an uncaring idiotic/incompetent group elected....or they are so greedy and comfortable they are beyond social reason....OR BOTH !! Personally I'd go for BOTH!! CariC...sorry again.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 19/03/2009 20:42

<p>that's terrible news chrissie, i'm sorry for your grandson.</p> <p>we are just collateral damage.</p> <p>people are supposed to be able to avail of the patients purchase fund after 3 months.</p> <p>those at the top don't give a rats ***e and it trickles all the ways ( nearly as there are still some good staff out there, but few ) down to the bottom.</p> <p>they all forget exactly why they are they and they are being paid to be there.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 21/03/2009 23:32

<p><span style="color: #0000ff;">To Sammi</span></p> <p>Thanks for your comment of my grandson, much appreciated. You are quite right to say <span style="color: #0000ff;"><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">We are just collateral damage</span></strong>. <span style="color: #000000;">I hope your Husband is doing well post his operation. We are made to feel like BEGGERS in the Public System in each and every Hospital right throughout our 26 Counties which have private/public systems combined. Not against Health Insurance to those who can afford it. Like I said if the Frontline Services go through as Brendan Drumm put forward and it's signed, sealed, and delivered come our April 7th Budget. That statement now worries me for my Daughter. </span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">She is down for elective admission on 16/17 April in a Dublin Hospital for removal of Sweat Glands under her Left Arm due to recurrent abysses. They are not healing properly from medication she got from our GP over 1.5 years, she's been to outpatients from referral of her GP waited about 10 months to be seen. She is in so much pain with these huge abysses. She got a phone call from this Hospital about three weeks ago, they had decided to take her in as a day case, she was told on the phone they are taking her in the day before her operation for her pain management. </span></span><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">She is age 26 now, when she was 17 years old she had the same operation in the same Hospital for removal of her sweat glands under her Right Arm also due to abysses. </span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">The point I'm getting across here which I think a lot would not know of. We were with her on that operation when she was admitted at age 17 as her Parents one of us were going to read the Operation Form, then sign it. While we were at her Bed the Doctor who requested signatute said:- She can sign it herself she's over 16 years. We could not believe this, we were Gobsmacked. (Can anyone else reading this, tell me they know this was the norm, because we didn't?)</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">Just imagine our young adolescents cannot Vote until they are 18 years of age, and yet the Doctors rules. HSE Rules have passed a system of a very young age of 16 to Girsl/Boys to sign a Form for whatever medical procedure takes place. Indeed this age group of 16 can work, if they can get work, so what is wrong with their Quando Quando Thinking!!! There is a saying we have around many Countries "Different Strokes for Different Folks". (Some government we have.)</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">If her operation does not go ahead as planned, I'll take to the streets right street, let them know we are treated worse than Cats &amp; Dogs. They have more rights than humans have. </span></span><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">Sammi I also have a thread on Concern over HSE's Bonuses</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">Chrissie <img title="Yell" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-yell.gif" border="0" alt="Yell" /> <img title="Yell" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-yell.gif" border="0" alt="Yell" /></span></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #0000ff;"> </span></span></p>

caric  Posted: 23/03/2009 13:40

<p>Carci C here. I still maintain that many of the problems in the health system are down to ineffectual, inefficient, sometimes incompetent and unfortunately at times negligent medical professionals.</p> <p>I have a terminal illness The fact that I am still here is down to luck and the grace of God. I have private medical insurance, have done so through 30 years of full time working in a large company. Probably wouldn't have been able to afford it otherwise. I was advised that my best chance of survival was to move out of the private system, since many of those consultants/specialists operate as individual entities and don't have access to multi-disciplinary teams, which the public system apparently has. So I did moved to the public system. I have experience of 3 private hospitals and numerous consultants and 2 of the largest public hospitals and respective staffs in Dublin.</p> <p>Please note that the public system does multi-disciplinary very well, in that they have staff from all the different specialities available. What they most definitely don't do very well, is to work as part of a team. To work as part of a team, means putting yourself on par with others and to have the patients optimum health and welfare as the goal, the best result. Many of these medical professionals are too busy positioning themselves, looking after their careers and protecting their egos. There generally exists a whole separate culture of "them and us" with them being the medical professinals and us being patients. As Dr. O'Keeffe says, if it wasn't for the patients, then the hospitals would run fine. That's absolutely true. The hospitals are not run for the patients, they are run to suit the staff. How mad is that? It is that simple.</p> <p>I work at a senior level in a large multi-national company. The behaviours I see in work, protecting the egos, career management ahead of the overall good, greed, all these type things are what I see played out in hospitals. It's not really surprising since they are people after all. However, in my experience in 'normal work environment', the only things that suffer when all of this gets in the way of work, is that projects don't deliver, deliver late or are of sub standard. Unfortunately when these behaviours play out in a hospital, patients suffer in all sorts of ways and unfortunately some die. In a workplace where these behaviours have adversely affected people and the company(s) I have worked in , I have fired people for incompetence and negligence. How many medical professionals have been fired for being ineffectual, inefficent, incompetent or negligent? Very few unless they have actually carried out outrageous crimes such as Dr. Neary in Drogheda.</p> <p>I heard Dr. O'Keeffe on the Pat Kenny radio show this morning. A rep from the HSE was on spouting the same PR jargon as usual about how our hospitals are improving and how they are learning from their mistakes. Dr. O'Keeffe quite rightly advised that this was all the same white wash as before.</p> <p>I have spent 2 of the worst years of my life going through this hospital system. In an 8 month period I had 4 emergency admissions to A&amp;E. The last time in November'08, I prayed in that A&amp;E dept that I would die so I wouldn't have to go through this again. I was admitted to the A&amp;E at 19.45, having being attended to by my GP that day. At that time, having given me morphine and sitting with me, he decided that I needed to go in as he was worred about dehydration. He wrote a letter for the A&amp;E doctor, stating the status, and what I needed including immediate IV fluids. I went into that A&amp;E at 19.45 and it was 5am the next morning when I was seen. I was seen because I was shouting and crying in pain. The nurses wouldn't look at me or the crowded A&amp;E patients all of that time because there was nothing they could do without the diagnosis of a doctor. So, they in effect ignored all of those around them who hadn't yet seen a doctor. I would add, the place was full of nurses and no doctors. The doctor, when she eventually saw me, immediately went into an explanation of how busy she was and why she couldn't get to me. She hadn't read the letter from my GP, she proceeded to tell me she didn't think I was dehydrated. Minutes later, virtually every vein I have in my arms collapsed through dehydration. This is the reality of the hospital system. I had a junior doctor who did her best but in fact had little experience. I got proper treatment when the staff doctors came on duty at 8am.</p> <p>To make a very long story short and I'm sorry if above is too long!!!!! I had to engage in much debate with the consultants and doctors regarding my illness and treatment. I never thought I would have to fight for the right treatment, not when I have an incurable cancer and the vulnerability and physical weakness that comes with that . However, that's what I had to do and came to understand, that's what many people have to do. Hopefully, with the grace of God, I am now on the right track even if it does mean that I have to go abroad to have the treatment I need. I have no blame attached to these people. I see them as people like you and me and as capable of getting it wrong as you and me. However, they do need to be answerable as you and me and that is most definitely not the case. This is what we should be looking for, accountability. I know we can't get it from the banks and God knows that they have destroyed many lives in other ways. Is it possible for the ordinary people, who are paying the salaries for all of these people to get accountability from them? It begs the question, does anyone actually know what the truth is anymore?</p> <p>I hope that everyone here going through treatment or caring for those that are, get the care and kindness that they deserve and need.</p>

brandy  Posted: 23/03/2009 16:10

<p>Cari C,</p> <p>I know you have enough on your plate, God knows....but I think your brilliant thoughts....especially this latest post... should be e-mailed to Liveline (joe duffy) !</p> <p>Our thoughts are with you you....take care.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 23/03/2009 22:08

<p>Hi Chrissie</p> <p>i also have a post in hope for sufferers of chronic pain. read my story.</p> <p>that is awful about your daughter. god the country is RANCID.</p> <p>workers are treated like S**** yet they are the very one's funding the HSE.</p> <p>i was at a fair once and there was a dog show - bear with me - in the ring was a dalmation and there happened a vocal olde irish man beside me. he commented on the dog and we kinda got into conversation. i said how they used to be a carriage dog for the landed gentry. ah thank god we don't have them no more he dayd - having a dig at my mixed accent ( welsh / english / irish - long story ) oh we you still have them i said , only they are wearing different coats, they are still the same.</p> <p>and it's true. the irish government and the church rule are a bunch of snobs who look down their noses at the workers like they are dirt under their boots. slavies are all we are to them.</p> <p>it's a sad state of affairs when you have to fight, FIGHT for treatment under the current system. the system we have the pleasure of working for and paying for these high salaries. ireland is a joke it had been for years, the country was being laughed at years ago. and still is.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 23/03/2009 22:27

<p>Hi Caric C, Brandy.</p> <p>so sorry to hear your story Caric C but glad too if you understand, there are so many of us with such bad stories, we really need to be able to get them all together for the media and throw it in the faces of the hse.</p> <p>for years my husband suffered unbearably with a herniated disc. ( see post hope for suffers of chronic pain ) in and out to doctors and the hospitals. i've seen vets treat and diagnose animals in a more humane efficient manner, why, becasuse their jobs depend on it.</p> <p>a consultant in tone hospital, after advising my husband against surgery ( WAS GOING TO GO PRIVATE) - since which we've found out was the only thing for him - and put him on nerve block injections for over a year which were a waste of time, in and out of hosipital, no life, chronic pain, lots of morphine, to be told " i'm washing my hands of this man, there's no more i can do, i'm not going to operate, send him home ". he was outside the hospital, no assistance, on crutches he took, hardly able to stand up. he was put out like a dog. when i went to get him, it broke my heart.</p> <p>a few months after that ( after us arranging for him to see a neuro surgeon - private, to operate) he got bad again, was on morphine, he was so bad the doctors said he needed to go back into hospital for pain releif.</p> <p>spent 10 hrs in there on a saturday, could not get a proper doctor to see him. he was told they could not admit him without a letter from gp. sent back in with gp referral, 10 hours later, told they would not admit him for 'back pain' against the rules ! go to dublin she told him. get out go home basically and he hardly able to stand. had to walk out, no assistance or help or any bit of care.</p> <p>these people should be sacked as incompetent and not suited for the job. simple as.</p> <p>like you say Caric C, in any other business if you make mistakes or are not up to the job, your gotten rid of, these guys are so protected. it make's my blood boil.</p> <p>they do not give a damn about the patients, not one bit.</p>

Broken  Posted: 24/03/2009 20:14

<p>If the editor feels I have written this before he can delete.</p> <p>I complained about four consultants to the Medical council, all consultants were in the one hospital.</p> <p>the decision was nothing to answer.</p> <p>Everyone has found that asthouding, but I didnt think for one minute I would get justice.</p> <p>The hospital wrote and told me to be assured that my health service would not be compromised because I complained!!!</p> <p>Well, I hope not! what an odd letter to write.</p> <p>Sure if they took the Hypocratic oath, such a thing would not enter a doctors psyche!</p> <p>Well, my little mind does 'buzz' like a bee at times and tis buzzing now.</p> <p>See, I dont believe that my health will not be compromised.</p> <p>What I think, they dont like complaints...all who heard my story have fallen apart in disbelief, so I did what I had to, complain.</p> <p>Of course I didnt win. Four in one hospital can form a wee hive and protect each other.</p> <p>I think they think we are eggits.</p> <p>this isnt at all about medicine, its about power and greed as if medicine was a money maker, forget the hypocratic oath, its hypocracy at its very, very worst.</p> <p>Now if you think this is bad - here goes, I have been asked by the county council that they will reconsider me for rehousing if I take down all the shelves and pictures, fill the holes with whatever and touch up the paint in my little social home, a box.</p> <p>Now consider this, I have a movement disorder and a muscle wasting disorder and they KNOW IT! I live in an upstairs 'box' and have fallen down the stairs three times!</p> <p>xx</p>

badger5079  Posted: 24/03/2009 21:27

<p>Hi there. I am a non-consultant hospital doctor. I empathise with the stories of hardship in the Irish medical system. I feel that the way hospitals are run in Ireland depends largely on the various consultants that work there. If a consultant allows his junior staff to behave in an unprofessional manner without reprimanding them or if he/she behaves rudely to patients then this is often absorbed by his junior staff. The consultants set the tone for how the various hospital departments are run. Therefore, I believe that we need high quality consultants in Ireland to increase the general standard of patient care. How do we achieve this goal? Certainly there needs to be formal oversight and competence assurance of all hospital doctors. There also needs to be more focus on training for non-consultant hospital doctors. I believe that this training should incorporate such activities as group learning and training in developing an ethical attitude and a pleasant bedside manner (even for "important" and busy consultants). There also needs to be a greater emphasis on the importance of cost-saving with respect to every treatment and investigation performed as this is a weakness of the public system.</p> <p>Senior doctors in Ireland don't usually spend much time teaching their staff as they do not receive any pay specifically for this. They receive the same pay whether or not they teach their staff. So many choose simply to be invisible to their staff who become mere gophers for carrying out ward jobs.</p> <p>There should also be an easier system for patients and their families to make formal complaints which would actually call for accountability from doctors when they fall blow the required standards of patient care.</p> <p>I believe that the public health system in Ireland is staffed by doctors of varying standards. If this can be improved, especially at consultant level, then the quality of medical care will improve. Most of our top consultants and specialists trained abroad as there has been a lack of training opportunities available in Ireland. When these consultants choose to come back to Ireland to provide this country with the benefit of their training, they bring with them a wealth of advanced specialist knowledge and techniques which they can pass on. Without this infusion of expertise into the Irish medical system, it would become stagnant and even more out-of date than it is.</p> <p>Sammi, I need to ask you a question. Why do you think that there are guidelines laid down for Emergency/Orthopaedics doctors by their consultants about not admitting patients with CHRONIC (LONG-TERM) back pain? What do you believe would be the benefit for a patient with long-term back pain of lying in a hospital bed taking morphine as opposed to lying in his own bed taking morphine? The story you tell has a few phrases which annoy me such as "proper doctor" (are you talking about Emergency department doctors not being proper doctors? These are the doctors that bring children and adults back from death's door whn they come into the emergency department after car crashes, heart attacks and strokes but perhaps I misunderstand you). I understand the frustration that chronic pain sufferers and their families experience.</p> <p>It sounds like your husband was seen by an Emergency doctor and then told to get a GP letter with advice that with a referral directly to the orthopaedic team he might be admitted. If this is the case, then the doctor who made this plan needs a kick up the arse as it wasted your time and the time of the Emergency department staff. No patient should be turned out of the ED and told to come back later that day with a GP letter. The matter should have been settled there and then. I have had to see such patients before and it is often difficult to explain that the best place for them to receive the appropriate care is in the chronic pain clinic with neurosurgey follow-up in case surgery is an option. (Surgery is highly risky and usually a last resort for back pain as it has a high failure rate).</p> <p>It is unethical and wasteful to admit a person to hospital who can have the same treatment at home. Every move that is made in the hospital costs money and this always has to be born in mind. While a patient with chronic pain can be in agony, if there is no cure for him in the hospital apart from the treatment he is getting at home i.e. Morphine then an admission cannot be justified...hence the "rules". The emergency department is not the right place for such a patient to seek help but due to a lack of alternatives, that is all too often where chronic pain sufferers come for help. All patients deserve not just compassion but a decent and clear explanation of the treatment plan even if that plan is not what the patient might have been hoping for. That is very often a weak link in the chain in healthcare.</p> <p>The most important thing that I believe was missing when your husband went to the ED was the presence of a senior doctor who could communicate a clear sensible plan to your husband and yourself. Some of the non-consultant hospial doctors are only newly qualified and lack the experience and training to be able to deal with such matters effectively but these are the doctors who are left to man the Emergency departments overnight. These doctors learn from their experiences and sometimes make mistakes.</p> <p>The consultant who said that he had washed his hands of the patient sounded quite rude. He should have explained his decision clearly instead of being curt and rude as you describe. Perjaps you could write him a letter to complain if you feel shabbily treated and ask him for a better explanation of why further surgical intervention is not an option for your husband.</p> <p>It would be better for patients to have senior doctors available all night to see patients but they are often caught up with other things as there are not enough consultants in Ireland. A consultant-delivered health service would be ideal but how to pay for it?</p> <p>This may sound like something Michael O'Leary would say but one of the main problems in the Ireland is that we have a culture of everybody expecting to get a high level of medical care (as long as somebody else is paying part or all of the bill). If patients were allowed to participate in a market system where they could drive down the costs of medical care and treatment and clearly see where the waste was then efficiency would be greatly improved. Who is responsible for controlling the cost of medical care? Who stops doctors prescribing treatments that are not required, ordering invesigation that are not necessary? Nobody.</p> <p>Until recently it was very common for nurses to declare themselves unavailable for certain shifts only to don the uniform of a nursing agency to do the shift at a locum rate (extremely wasteful).</p> <p>There are so many examples in hospital where there is unnecessary waste and hardship for patients but the quickest and most effective way to change it is to improve the quality of the consultants.</p> <p>Of course, the HSE have announced that they are going to drastically cut back on the doctors' training in the last few weeks. Overtime is now going to be paid at the same rate as the basic pay for the first nine hours and with a 25% premium for any hours worked over this. (Doctors' overtime is obligatory and done at the behest of consultants while nurses pick and choose their shifts). Many good doctors are now going to emigrate due to the training and pay cutbacks which are up to 40% of doctors' income (and this is on top of the pension levy which everyone else in the public sector is so angry about). This means that Irish hospital doctors are about to have their pay and training grants cut to the order of 40%. This will decrease the quality of medical care in Ireland as ambitious and dynamic doctors leave, never to return. Welcome to the recession.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 25/03/2009 22:44

<p>Hi Broken</p> <p>I'm very sorry to hear your story.</p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">I complained about four consultants to the Medical council, all consultants were in the one hospital.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">the decision was nothing to answer.complained about four consultants to the Medical council, all consultants were in the one hospital.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">the decision was nothing to answer.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">a lot of us have had the misfortune to realise complaining is a waste of breath, time and effort. it's well known the consultants are a law unto themselves, they have a lot of power and they are an ' old boys club ' if you were seeking a claim of medical negligence against one of them,&nbsp;you would have to get a consultant from the uk to go against them. as no irish one would.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">they also know that the people they are dealing with are unlikely to have the finacial means to take a case against them, so they can pretty much do and say as they please and get away with it. who is going to do anything, nobody. see the post obnoxius consultant someone else posted.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">hi badger5079</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">&nbsp;I feel that the way hospitals are run in Ireland depends largely on the various consultants that</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">If a consultant allows his junior staff to behave in an unprofessional manner without reprimanding them or if he/she behaves rudpatients then this is often absorbed by his junior staff.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">this is highlighting one of the many complaint different people are making under different posts on this site. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">they are being paid an awful lot of money to do a JOB if they can't do it in the correct manner suited to the postition they should be removed, simple as, they are not selling cars they are dealing with human beings, the whole point of their existence in the health system is supposedly to care for sick people of varying degrees.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">have you aver been a patient in A&amp;E. sit back and watch exactly what goes on. there seems to be plenty of time for social networking and chatting. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #000080;">Why do you think that there are guidelines laid down for Emergency/Orthopaedics doctors by their consultants about not admitting patients with CHRONIC (LONG-TERM) back pain?</span> </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">my husband has previously been admitted to a hospital ward on a number of occasions for the same problem in the past when he would have a serious attack, so bad he is unable to stand or walk. i take ISSUE with your terminology BACK PAIN as this is a generalistion which lessens the severity of the complaint, a HERNIATED disc is not back pain. it bulges and causes nerve pain, which is excruciating, muscular BACK PAIN is a different thing altogether. have you ever suffered a herniated disc, are you actually personally aware of the severity of the pain, i mean personally now, not what you've learnt from text books.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #000080;">What do you believe would be the benefit for a patient with long-term back pain of lying in a hospital bed taking morphine as opposed to lying in his own bed taking morphine?</span> </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">are you aware that gp's won't consistently administer morphine on an ongoing basis as they say they are ADDICTIVE. plus a gp won't come out to the house every 6 hours to give you the injections anyway. neither will westdoc.&nbsp;so how is a patient to lie in his own bed taking morphine when he can't get it. if he could he wouldn't need to go into hospital would he. i was taking him twice a day, and he in agony, by car to get these injections.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">so i guess the BENEFITS are that a person, who is in such severe pain that they cannot even go to the TOILET because they CANNOT WALK or they CANNOT SLEEP at night as they are in agony, will get medical care from trained staff to adminster the CONTROLLED drugs (which you cannot get any other way) on a 24 hr basis until the bulge has settled to some degree.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">it was the opinion of more than one gp that he needed to be in hospital to be given controlled 24 hr pain relief because he was so bad. because they wouldn't keep giving him morphine injections.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">The story you tell has a few phrases which annoy me such as "proper doctor" (are you talking about Emergency department doctors not being proper doctors? These are the doctors that bring children and adults back from death's door whn they come into the emergency department after car crashes, heart attacks and strokes but perhaps I misunderstand you). I understand the frustration that chronic pain sufferers and their families experience.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">by proper doctors i mean NOT JUNIOR DOCTORS. who tally back and forth like little messangers to the consultants, who can't be bothered to deal with the case in person. just because my husband wasn't a car crash victim doesn't mean you can lessen his case to a lower degree.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">by the way i know someone who was recently admitted as a stroke victim and they mucked up her treatment too, the family got so frustrated they just took her to beaumont, good job too, as she had a brain haemmoraghe (probably not spelt right).</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">if you have a hands on experience of herniated disc sufferers you will be aware that the main problems occur when there is a flare up, when that happens your appointment with the pain clinic, which is maybe 6 wks away,&nbsp;for yet another nerve block injection, which is not working anyway, is not much use. is it.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">my husband was advised AGAINST surgery by the consultant, who led him a merry dance for TWO YEARS, with us believing if the nerve blocks didn't work they would operate.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">it seems to me that orthopeadic surgeons in this country are reluctant to operate in these cases. well they shouldn't get involved in the first place if they haven't got the necessary skills for the job they should advise people to go to nuero surgeons who can do it.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">It sounds like your husband was seen by an Emergency doctor and then told to get a GP letter with advice that with a referral directly to the orthopaedic team he might be admitted.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">my husband was seen by a junior doctor. who hadn't even bothered to read his case history. i had to HARASS him to administer morphine to kill the pain, which he did so begrudgenly i might add. this was after about TEN HOURS.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">how was he going to be reffered to an orthopaedic team, he'd been down that road, oh what happened, the consultant 'washed' his hands of him and put him out on the street.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">you cannot get admitted to hospital, so it would seem ,without going first&nbsp;through A&amp;E. and you cannot get adimitted to a ward unless it's on the say of a consultant. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">i couldn't even get a consultant to come and see him.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">he was sent home with a prescription for OXYCONTIN. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">the second time, the monday, he was referred back in with a letter it was the same thing all over, this time i had his scan with us. TEN HOURS we found out they weren't going to admit him. i had to DEMAND to speak to someone from orthopaedics. and i tell you they didn't give a damn. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">and i will tell you why, he was no longer under a consultant, they knew he was going private for the operation. the easiest thing for them was to do NOTHING. patients charter point 11 THE RIGHT TO AVOID UNECESSARY PAIN AND SUFFERING, not worth the paper it's written on.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">we were given a prescription for OXYCONTIN. they give it to terminally ill cancer sufferers. do you know the fight i had with the gp to get this stuff for him, unreal, it's addictive. it's so powerful. it drove him off his head, totally high. he was a danger to himself. i was a bag of nerves, i couldn't leave his side for fear. do you know what it's like to be with someone 24/7 minding them like a baby. it still didn't kill the pain. only morphine kills the pain. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">we got him into another hospital, he was in it for a full week, unable to walk and in agony with minor periods of relief when he's get morphine, then that would wear off and he'd be in agony until he got the next one. many times when he was in my car he got so WEAK with the pain he nearly fell down.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">the staff were brilliant, except for juniors who are reluctant to give morphine as it's ADDICTIVE. my husband flies in the face of that theory as he's not craving it.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">an ambulance was booked to take him to dublin as there was no way he could go in a car.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">he had the surgery and the relief from the nerve pain was INSTANT. the following after noon he was able to walk again.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000080;">the best place for them to receive the appropriate care is in the chronic pain clinic with neurosurgey follow-up in case surgery is an option. (Surgery is highly risky and usually a last resort for back pain as it has a high failure rate).</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">my husband was being seen by the pain team. i had to call them myself the day my husband was put out on the street, to intervene. every one was baffled as to why there was no operation pending given that my husband was so bad.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">SURGERY IS HIGHLY RISKY- where is that information coming from. i wonder if it is risky as maybe the ortho guys are not suitably qualified and should not be doing it anyway.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">LAST RESORT FOR BACK PAIN - again i love that misnomer, makes it sound so insignificant. like 'ah you've only a pain in your back, ther's nowt wrong wit ya'.WHAT do you consider a last resort. if a man is a cripple and cannot walk to the toilet and cannot work and has no life and is continually drugged up. i'd of thought that would be an ideal&nbsp;candidate as SURGERY IS THE ONLY HOPE.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">HIGH FAILURE RATE yes, we know some people who weren't right after, some didn't follow the aftercare right. we know some that were sucessful. and let's not forget there are different degrees and symptoms associated with herniated discs.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">neuro surgeon took one look at my husband and knew exactly what was wrong, surgery he was told was his ONLY HOPE.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">TWO THIRDS of the disc had to be removed. if the ortho consultant had bothered his a*** to do another scan he would have seen that the bulge had worsened, which was my husband's cond</span><span style="color: #000000;">ition had worsened.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">so he's out of work, i'm out of work now to mind him ,but the consultant is still getting his big fat pay cheque and bonuse's, happy days for him.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">i sincerely hope for your sake you don't suffer a herniated disc and suffer the agony my husband has suffered on and off for 16 years, the last seven of those being very bad and the last two being chronic as he deteriorated so badly.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">that you will be in a postition where you cannot work, cannot play with your children, that you are in pain 24/7 every waking minute of the day for years on end, some so bad that you cannot walk or go to the toilet. cannot get the correct treatment and advice. i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.people don't understand pain unless they've experienced it. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">it cannot be learned from a book. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">he is a changed man for the surgery. he can walk now. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">the hse is a disgrace. the majority off the staff are a disgrace, their attitudes, their lack of care. i've witnessed animals treated in a more humane way. they have chosen that profession, put up or shut up. they have no right to look down their noses at the public patients thinking they are superior. they forget where the money comes from that pays their wages. WORKERS who pay their taxes and have the right to proper medical care and attention from the very people they are paying the wages for. every meber of staff should treat their patients with the same common courtesy and due regard that they would show their boss.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">look through all the other posts on this site and you will see there are many people saying the same things.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">now i've ranted on a bit too much but there was a lot to say. facts are facts and they shouldn't be glossed over cos someone may not like what they hear.</span></p>

cancel  Posted: 26/03/2009 12:15

<p>How refreshing to read something of value from a professional who knows the system. Dr O'Keefe, you clearly know what the problems are and your proposal to bring in someone like Michael O'Leary is a very positive one. In fact, I think only the real MO'L need stand up as anyone else would soon get pulled into the <em>protection zone</em> of those already in the system - both hospital and government.</p> <p>I don't have a great deal of&nbsp;experience of Dublin Hospitals&nbsp;but, what experience&nbsp;I do have is enough to worry me because I have an elderly sister who is dependent on their services.&nbsp;I&nbsp;have raised many questions but have got no response,&nbsp;I am sure 'they' would prefer me to go away and not ask&nbsp;questions but that would be wrong, someone sometime has to stop them and ask questions - unfortunately 'they' just refuse to answer.&nbsp;</p> <p>I know this editorial focused on hosptials and staff but I think the whole system needs&nbsp;a shake up as I also found the GP's to be arrogant and uncooperative -when asked to do a home visit to someone who can hardly walk I was told that the GP was busy, that the patient would have to attend surgery next week and so she waits! amazing.....</p> <p>I understand all the economic arguments that have gone before but when you are a patient in the system with no other means of obtaining treatment economics do not come into it&nbsp;- <em>lets get the Consultants and their teams into clinics/theatres on time and to remain for the full session, get the nurses back to basics - nurse the patients until they are well enough to go home, get the GPs to reconsider their Hippocratic Oath and start treating patients like people not irritants. </em></p> <p>Junior Doctors&nbsp;the world over&nbsp;carry a heavy load - this is nothing new but then Consultants were once junior doctors and are simply continuing to bad habits they learned from their seniors at that time. It is something about the 'sins of the father visiting the children'&nbsp;</p> <p>What I would like to see is a reduction in the power of the clinician&nbsp;cartels and an unprecedented&nbsp;focus on the patient in the 21st century. Can Michael O'Leary deliver this on his own...I doubt it, but I am sure he would give it his best shot. Perhaps we could get Alan Sugars to join him - I am sure that between them they could get the sparks to fly. What do you think?</p> <p><img title="Undecided" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" /></p>

caric  Posted: 26/03/2009 17:02

<p>CariC. Thanks Sammi, I'm delighted that after all your husband has been through, he is getting on so well now. Thanks also Badger5079 for your input. The bottom line is that we are all essentially saying the same things.</p> <p><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: black;">Badger5079, within your hospital system are there currently Performance and Professional standards set out and agreed for doctors at all levels, consultants, other medical professionals etc. ? Perhaps I am being naive but surely the setting out and measurement of such standards should encourage and drive for continuous improvement at all levels. </span></span><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; color: black;">I am not just speaking of technical medical expertise but of other skills such as communication skills, interpersonal skills, team building, mentoring and training skills etc. These are essential skills, particularly when medical professionals are expected to deal with the public all of the time and for much of that time are dealing with vunerable, frightened sick people and more importantly, when those at higher levels such as consultants should be leading by example and helping these young medics to be the best that they can be. I don't see why these Performance and Professional standards cannot be put out into the public domain, understood by all and more importantly, form part of the Stats that the HSE are currently measuring and reporting on. In an ideal world, personal accountability should be a given. However, that just doesn't happen, so people need to be pushed and prodded until they get with the program. Also, there should also be additional rewards for outstanding performance. This encourages high standards. If everyone gets paid the same regardless, then what is the incentive. We should reward the behaviours we want to see and penalise those we don't. </span></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Carol  Posted: 26/03/2009 20:38

<p>Our Hospitals are not working because the money is being given to the HSE Executives and not to the hospitals. tonights Evening Herald verifies that. The money is THERE! our Money! But, until we get some honest, trustworthy people in Government thats the way it will stay.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 27/03/2009 09:54

<p>hi Cancel</p> <p>sorry to hear about your sister. another victim.</p> <p>there are others with the same problems.see the posts</p> <p>obnoxious consultant</p> <p>concern on hse bonuses</p> <p>chronic pain sufferers</p> <p>contact the irish patients assosiation.</p> <p>write a letter to your FG TD</p> <p>write a letter of complaint, send it to paatients association and to the manager of the hospital, who will just pass it on to the complaints dept but send it to the manager. send a copy of same letter to the Regional Manager of hse for your area. if you have a computer you can write one letter and format it for each person, thus making it easier, and keep a copy yourself.</p> <p>the only way there can ever be any changes made is if the management get bombarded with complaints to such a degree they have to do something.</p> <p>unfortunately without the government being changed first, i cannot see how the people can get rid of Mary Harney and Brendan Drumm, these are the main players in what has become a powerful system. the hse executives, managers and consultants are so protected by them and our government officials.</p> <p>the attitudes prevalent in hospitals by medical staff don't really have much to do with training in my opinion. it snobbery, they have high opinions of themselves as they have medical training and think they are above everyone else, they are working in protected system and they know it.</p> <p>best of luck.</p>

cancel  Posted: 27/03/2009 14:42

<p>Hi Everybody</p> <p>Thank you for you words of support and advice on what I can/should do next. As I don't live in Ireland there is very little I can do to change your Government, but hopefully I can add some weight to your comments for the need for a public enquiry into the operation of the health service, the provision to care across both primary and secondary care and way in which both sectors are funded.</p> <p>Perhaps Dr O'Keefe can take this forward for all users both public and private. Patients are patients and either sector should receive the same level of care and treatment - the only difference money should make is the time spent on the waiting list - queue jumping is something that won't stop because money talks.</p> <p><img title="Surprised" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" /></p>

Broken  Posted: 27/03/2009 17:00

<p>Got another awful doctor yesterday. He told me he wasn't used to being told what to do!</p> <p>I had asked him if I could have utrasound on knee as I cannot walk and it is throwing out my other leg and back. I have a movement disorder and muscle wasting disorder, I have to make sure I can walk to keep pain away.</p> <p>A report came back from top london hospital noting a problem with heart, I asked for the trace to go to a cardiologist, again 'why?'</p> <p>In the end, after all the hitler type interogations I broke down in tears and left.</p> <p>He was young and told me he did not like being told what to do! I am an adult twice his age, I know my body.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 27/03/2009 20:43

<p>Hi broken</p> <p>that's awful. little b******'s. i know what i'd tell him.</p> <p>it's no wonder they have signs up everywhere saying abuse will not be tolerated, isn't it no wonder they're getting abuse with the way they talk to people.</p> <p>have you written to the irish patients association. you MUST complain.</p> <p>keep us posted</p>

brandy  Posted: 27/03/2009 21:21

<p>Broken,</p> <p>if you have his it to the papers/radio....forget about the med authorities...they will probably just fob you off ! Idiots like that should be struck off before they do real damage. Remember what Neary's arrogance did? !</p>

badger5079  Posted: 27/03/2009 21:58

<p>I agree that there is not enough oversight for doctors. There needs to be rapid delivery of the promised oversight plans for all doctors. If consultants are rude, lazy or wasteful then the tone is set for the NCHDs to do likewise unfortunately.</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">have you ever been a patient in A&amp;E. sit back and watch exactly what goes on. there seems to be plenty of time for social networking and chatting. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">I have been a patient in A+E once with a head injury. I had to go home after being checked out by a nurse as I didn't want to wait any longer (4 hours was enough).</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">I have also worked in E.D. departments as a doctor and I have often seen staff chatting or discussing their social lives but only when the department is under control and patients have had everything possible done for the by the E.D. staff. Unfortunately, due to the lack of doctors on call or more accurately, due to the lack of senior doctors capable of quick and efficient decision-making on-call, there are often patients waiting on trolleys in the ED while E.D. nurses and doctors have done everything that they can. I cannot remember seeing any Emergency staff chatting about their social lives while a sick patient was needing their help. If this happens it is unprofessional and callous.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">Your husband's back pain is obviously very severe and I do not dispute that. He also has been shoddily treated by the doctors that you mentioned. However, I will now insert to links to studies that show that oral oxycodone can be used for the most severe types of pain and that their is not necessarily any benefit to having IV Morphine over oral oxycodone. If enough Oxycodone is given, then it is equivalent to morphine (that is if you discount the psychological effects of knowing that you are receiving the same medication for pain that the marines get in the movies when their guts are hanging out.) Here are the links <span style="color: #3366ff;"></span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;">;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&amp;linkpos=5&amp;log$=relatedreviews&amp;logdbfrom=pubmed</span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">If you accept that oral oxycodone should be just as efficacious as IV Morphine when the proper doses are given, you can see why I am not an advocate of bringing a patient into hospital for the treatment of long-term back pain. It is simply a wasteful practice if the patient can have their pain treated just as well at home. However, I don't know if your husband has access to specialist clinics. This would be ideal as GPs are not generally able to easily manage chronic back pain with confidence. If you husband is set up with an effective dose of oxycodone(Oxycontin) then he should be able to avoid the hospital as there is nothing better (even Morphine).Your husband should not need IV Morphine injections for the most severe pain...all he needs is the proper dose of oral medication and this would be Oxycodone, I believe.</span></span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">There is a warning about the dangers of addictiveness of Oxycontin and there is a huge black market for it as it gives a buzz. Many generalist doctors are highly worried that they would only encourage tolerance and addiction by fine-tuning the prescription for such powerful and potentially addictive pain-killers. They prefer to leave it to pain specialists but that is not a great option as there are not enough of these.</span></span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">Nerve blocks are highly variable in their effectiveness and if they work the effect is not long-lasting in many cases. At least that is my opinion.</span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">By the way, whether or not your husband's chronic pain comes from a herniated disk or some other chronic (long-term) abnormality is not the main thing to focus on. The main thing to focus on is his symptom - severe, long term, life-altering pain. The reason that back surgey is a last resort is not because the surgeon doesn't have the balls or the's because it is a quite serious risk to do this surgery and the chances of relieving the symptoms are often much lower than the chances of death. Those odds are weighed up by the surgeon who uses all of his or her knowledge before taking the risk of killing your husband for a very small chance of success. The surgeon in your case should have communicated this better to you... but surgeons are often drawn to that career because they think it will allow them to ignore the patient and focus on the disease. (Not all, but it is an established trend) </span></span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">b<span style="color: #3366ff;">y proper doctors i mean NOT JUNIOR DOCTORS. who tally back and forth like little messangers to the consultants, who can't be bothered to deal with the case in person. just because my husband wasn't a car crash victim doesn't mean you can lessen his case to a lower degree.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">I hope you can appreciate the irony of your plea that I not downplay your husband's back pain when you are quite happy to condescendingly refer to non-consultant hospital doctors as little messengers. The term junior doctor is one that I reject. It implies that you are a little infant who needs to be held by the hand all the time. There are NCHDs of varying levels of knowledge and expertise that would come under your title of junior doctors. Some of them are in their late fifties and have all the expertise of a consultant but cannot find a consultant in Ireland because of a lack of places and funding for jobs. Others of them are only recently qualified and need more senior guidance but even these doctors are highly trained with 6 years of undergraduate medical training which is internationally highly rated. (if they were trained in Ireland, that is). But too often, the docotrs that are on-call and in the hospital need guidance and the more senior doctors and consultants are on the end of a phone-line when it would be more efficient if they were in the hospital making the decisions quickly. Sure it would cost more to get consultants to be in-house overnight working on the frontline but the saving would be massive in terms of reduced numbers of admissions and unneccessary investigations.</span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;">the staff were brilliant, except for juniors who are reluctant to give morphine as it's ADDICTIVE. my husband flies in the face of that theory as he's not craving it.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">There is psychological craving for a drug and there is the tolerance that the body develops for a drug. Sometimes even doctors confuse these. While your husband may not have had the craving for morphine, he certainly would have noticed diminishing returns for a given dose of painkiller over time. That's what usually happens. Why is this bad?'s bad because the side effects become more severe at higher doses e.g. nausea, constipation and hallucinations and confusion. Again, I detect contempt in your use of the term juniors but I suppose you feel that you have earned the right to run down all doctors since I see at the end of your post that your husband's pain seemed to be relieved by surgery due to correction of disc herniation. It sounds like your husband had an unnecessarily delay in his surgery. The first specialist missed out on this chance to help your husband. Not good. Again however, for the majority of chronic pain sufferers. they should have a management plan for what to do if they have a flare-up at home and it should not involve waiting in an E.D. to be seen and treated by doctors who are employed acute problems. GPs should be in a position to manage such pain with input from the pain specialists in my view.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">The last thing I will say is that I agree that any patient who is in the E.D. complaining of severe pain should have adequate pain relief administered regardless of whether the complaint is new or old (as long as there is no evidence of drug-seeking behaviour)....but it shouldn't be necessary for patients with chronic pain to end up in the E.D. when their pain can be managed as an outpatient (whether that is by oral painkillers or a plan for surgery if that is deemed necessary).</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">I agree that empathy and appreciation of pain cannot be learned from a book. However, I believe that most doctors choose the profession out of a sense of wanting to help people as there are certainly easier ways of making a living. We all pay taxes and it is the interest of all that the model of funding for healthcare in this country is radically altered. There are more and more people surviving to old age (a good thing and due in no small part to the improvements in medicine made by doctors but I don't expect you to acknowledge that). The birth rate is also falling. This means that there won't be enough money from the current system of healthcare in Ireland to maintain the standard of care for ever-growing numbers of patients. The governments won't increase the number of beds or doctors or nurses because they say that there are too many of us. Fine. Get rid of 25% of us...but do you still expect that the level of service will not drop if you do this?</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">There needs to be a more direct method of payment by patients for healthcare so that the costs will be driven down. The waste in the public healthcare system is ridiculous in some areas....but nobody cares since the money is "free". Unfortunately, as you have correctly alluded to, there is no such thing as a free lunch in healthcare since it soaks up a lot of the tax revenue. The biggest problem is that there is a lack of oversight on costs in the public healthcare system and nobody takes responsibility for this. If the public had lower taxes but had to make direct payments (even if it is just a fraction of the bill) then costs hsould be driven down. Of course this would require the ability to shop around and choose different doctors or hospitals with different prices and different levels of expertise. You would at least get some semblance of what you pay for as opposed to the current system of funding the good hospitals and doctors to the same extent as the bad. Remeber, if this worked then workers' taxes would be lower.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">By the way, don't forget that doctors are WORKERS too. How many times have you done 3 36 hour shifts in a 2 week period until ulcers burst out on your feet and your bowels stop working? ..</span></span><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">It's been 5 times this year so far for me. Doctors are WORKERS all right, don't you worry about that.</span></span><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;"> But you would say that I signed up for this...Sorry, no I didn't realise that the healthcare system in Ireland was so broken when I signed up to do medicine. I didn't have the benefit of having doctors in the family to warn me of the downsides. Having said that, I will not change career as it is very interesting and worthwhile to be able to help cure patients as most of them appreciate it. It would be great if the public could see the workrates of doctors compared to other public sector workers. Doctors are about to have their contracts altered so that their pay and training is cut by up to 40% on top of the pension levy....but the government know that this is an easy sell because of the myth of the overpaid "junior" doctor. NCHD doctors receive similar basic pay to nurses but are obligated to do ridiculous amounts of overtime which pushes their income up...but it is earned in blood and at the cost of patient care due to tired doctors. (Other public sector workers wouldn't accept this but the public would be quite happy to cut the pay and training of doctors by 40% so that social benefits can be maintained) I believe that if a society rewards unproductive people such as letting a 17 year old mother jump to the top of the housing list because she has managed the tremendous feat of conceiving a child out of wedlock, then this is going to encourage many underprivileged people to continue to have the same entitlement atitude. The government doesn't have an endless amount of money to spend without getting any return on their investment. There are increasing numbers on the dole, the pension, carers allowance. single mother's allowance, widow's alllowance not to mention burgeoning numbers with medical cards which mean that they are depending on other people' s money to pay for their healthcare. This system is not sustainable.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">You can choose to reward productivity and drive or to create a society where there is no advantage in being educated and ambitious and a net contributor to society. One of these is the path to hell.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #3366ff;"></span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"></span></p>

badger5079  Posted: 27/03/2009 22:13

<p>Cancel....You said:</p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span class="black_11">I know this editorial focused on hosptials and staff but I think the whole system needs a shake up as I also found the GP's to be arrogant and uncooperative -when asked to do a home visit to someone who can hardly walk I was told that the GP was busy, that the patient would have to attend surgery next week and so she waits! amazing.....</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span class="black_11"><span style="color: #000000;">I time for a dose of reality. The population is growing at an anormous rate but the government has frozen the numbers of GPs. </span></span></span><span class="deck"><span class="articlebody">Only 120 GP training places were made available this year, but 250 need to be trained every year to meet the demand.</span></span><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span class="black_11"><span style="color: #000000;"> We need to sort this problem out. Gps used to be able to do home visits but in this country it is becoming common to have difficulties finding a GP practice willing to take on new patients as they are at capacity. Does this alter your view?...GPs simply can't do all the house call that are requested in many areas as other patients'care would suffer. There are simply not enough GPs for the population. That is the problem.</span></span></span></p>

badger5079  Posted: 27/03/2009 22:33

<p>Caric:</p> <p>You said: <span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Perhaps I am being naive but surely the setting out and measurement of such standards should encourage and drive for continuous improvement at all levels.</span></span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #000000;">Professional standards and maintaing a professional ethos.....that's all just jargon on a page if you don't have the type of consultant who leads by example. If a consultant doesn't wash his hands between examining patients or is arrogant in his dealings with patients or allows an unprofessiojnal atmosphere to develop, then he is not they type of doctor that we want in the system in the public. The problem in Ireland is that training is ad-hoc for many hospital doctors unless they are on a specialist training scheme. Since consultants are not paid any differently whether they have a good teaching ethos or not, the lazy ones can just opt out of teaching. Since consultants know that there will be few who will dare challenge the if they are being unprofessional, some of them abuse this power. The NCHDs won't act as whistleblowers since most of them have to dive into the jobs market and travel across Ireland looking for jobs every 6 months. (Not to mention the non-EU doctors whose presence in Ireland is only allowed as long as they have a job here...if they lose their jobs due to challenging a consultant for poor standards they may have to take themselves and their families back to Sudan, Pakistan, South Africa or India or wherever.) Some of our brightest young doctors come out of Irish medical schools, do one hellish year of internship and realise that they will only receive the training they need in the U.S. so this talent haemorrhages out of Ireland. Now that training grants are being reviewed by the HSE there is only more encouragement for NCHDs to leave Ireland and get decent training. The net result is a lower quality of hospital doctor and a lower quality of consultant.</span></span></span></span></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 30/03/2009 02:27

<p><span style="color: #0000ff;">To Sammi</span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Read your post of your Husband's back chronic pain for years from herniated disks, and through all your fighting for his rights and repeatedly seeking help for his suffering.</span></p> <p>I would just like to ask you if I have read your post right that when you took him to Dublin by way of Ambulance (no doubt you had to fight for that too) was he operated on by a Neurosurgeon for this? I say this because parts of the spine can only be done by them and not orthopaedics. If I read this wrong and took it out of context I am very sorry for same. My thoughts are to him for a good and speedy recovery.</p> <p>As about the person you know being admitted as a stroke victim, and her family got her to hospital, and they picked up that she suffered a Subacranoid Brain Haemorrhage known to the medics as a (SAH) Hope she's doing fine really I do. If her family contact the social worker there they should receive a book about the recovery of this, and how to handle it as it can progress to going forward, and to going back again with her condition. It takes a long time to recover from this depending on the bleed. Thank God her family got her out of that hospital because there is one thing that should be done before Doctors give medication and that's a CT Scan or Brain Scan to rule out whether it's a stroke or SAH. If any medic were to give blood thinners to patients with this they would bleed further in their brain. I write this for Badger 5079 to read or comment on. I know all about this 1st hand because I survived a SAH and the hospital I was in were admitting me. I was 6.5 hours in that A&amp;E and I not knowing, but my husband was told the brain scan machine is not working. After the hours I was there 6.5 I took a grand mal seizure, 3 altogether and that's when they ambulanced me off to a Neurosurgeon. It happened on a Wednesday. Had it happened on a Fri/Sat/Sun I dont know if I would have lived or died 'til Monday to be properly accessed, and anyway as I've said the scan was broken. These are the things that the public never hear. We are not just patients, but we are customers as well.</p> <p>If it were to come about that hospitals were empty of patients where would the money come from to pay all those right from the top of the H.S.E. and the Dept., of Health and all those working in relation to it? Isn't this (Food for thought) let's hope that next April 7 we do not get more victimized than we already are with our health system, because if Brian Cowan and Brian Lehihan our minster for finance cuts health services what will become of us all the sick customers?</p> <p>Sammi where you have dealing with chronic pain could you please tell me on a post. I've looked and cannot find it on my personal health page here. Still learning how to navigate around this system, but it's a great system they have here. I'm looking for it for my Husband's chronic pain after his orthopaedic surgery for his leg. Editor would you please let this go out to post because we are grossly short of Neurosurgeons and othopaedic surgeons in our Ireland.</p>

caric  Posted: 30/03/2009 15:33

<p>Badger5079 thanks for your reply. My last posting was missing quite abit of text (you must have had your reasons editor) but within that I tried to address solutions to the issues you posed. For instance, it should be easy enough for the HSE to introduce a salary scale for consultants so that those who teach, train and mentor receive more compensation that those who do not. From what you state in your posting, there should be significant value attached to these skills because of the overall benefit to our doctors and health system. In fact we are bearing the consequences of not having such common sense management in place. We need to also bear in mind that not everyone is good at training,teaching and mentoring and consultants are no diifferent so the consultants who are good at it and add value should be held up as examples of what we want to see in the health service. I know this mail is probably driving you mad with jargon you've seen before. But I've worked (and hope to resume work after my treatment) for over 20 years in large multinational companies with unbelievable structures, egotistical monsters sitting on top and change can and does happen. Personally I have initiated and driven many such changes, I fully understand the fear factor involved in standing up for what is right (or indeed what we believe is wrong), particularly in the face of negative consequences for your career and livelihood. However there are things worth fighting for and perhaps this sledgehammer blow to doctors in terms of cuts in their compensation and training allowances will allow them push for a more equitable system overall. I personally believe if we try to work for the wider good, we have a much better chance of succeeding than all of these '1 man bands' trying to look after themselves.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 30/03/2009 20:31

<p>Hi Chrissie</p> <p>yes the surgery was done by a nuerosurgeon. this was only after he was not treated by effectively by consultants he was seeing, nor was he offerered any advice on the way forward. not once did any one mention a neurosurgeon.</p> <p>we found out from a GP after battling and despairing.</p> <p>badger</p> <p>the contemptuous vibe you pick up is directed at the system and those who control it. and to the consultant and doctors who failed my husband and treated him in an appalling manner. it's obvious i'm not talking about 'good' doctors or 'good' nurses or else we woudn't be having this conversation. i am but one of many. i have other posts where i actually agree with some of the social problems you mention. take a look at concern on hse bonuses- i think that's the one.</p> <p>there is a whistleblower system in operation for employees to voice their concerns.</p> <p>oxycontin was never once mentioned by doctors, consultants or pain team before as an option, any way it did not kill the pain. as i said, morphine is the only thing, in this case, that dealt with the pain. i am talking from experience. and hello, 'dying' from back surgery, how is that a risk? never heard of it.</p>

badger5079  Posted: 31/03/2009 01:58

<p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Broken, you said"</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Got another awful doctor yesterday. He told me he wasn't used to being told what to do!</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;">I had asked him if I could have utrasound on knee as I cannot walk and it is throwing out my other leg and back. I have a movement disorder and muscle wasting disorder, I have to make sure I can walk to keep pain away.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;">A report came back from top london hospital noting a problem with heart, I asked for the trace to go to a cardiologist, again 'why?'</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;">In the end, after all the hitler type interogations I broke down in tears and left.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;">He was young and told me he did not like being told what to do! I am an adult twice his age, I know my body."</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;"><span style="color: #000000;">1: Your doctor sounds like a rude and uncaring doctor.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ccff;"><span style="color: #000000;">2: He may have had just cause for not doing an ultrasound of the knee (MRI knee or even MRI back might be more appropriate) and he may have had a reason why he was happy with your ECG but it was his duty to explain this to you courteously. Is there a complaints department in the hospital? I think you can make a complaint to the hospital. This will be followed up although you probably won't get any feedback as that would be too patient-centered :)</span></span></p>

Broken  Posted: 31/03/2009 09:49

<p>Thank you for your comment. I now have a 'reputation' for complaining about doctors.</p> <p>I am very,very tired woman. I absolutely have no clout. They had done as much harm to me as is humanly possible.</p> <p>I have been through Hell and back in the past five years. I never thought human beings can be so ignorant so cruel and insensitive.</p> <p>I have never ever met such awful men as in our health service.</p> <p>I am worn out. I am as my title name says.</p> <p>Absolutely shattered.</p> <p>I am utterly terrified to tell my dear twin sister who has Parkinsons desease that she should not come home after 38yrs.</p> <p>i am alone with so much illnesses and difficulties and use a scooter myself.</p> <p>How can I morally allow her to come home because I need her and feel we should have some pleasant times together when as we deteriorate so does the health service.</p> <p>I am torn.</p> <p>It is wrong to mislead an Irish person abroad who wants to return to her homeland but who has PD with little services here.</p> <p>As a person who has brain damage, myself, will I uproot and move to her and leave my country I love, the sea, the local area which gives me such relief away from human beings who are so awful.</p> <p>What do you do as a compromise.</p> <p>She wants to come back but doesnt really know what she is coming home to.</p> <p>I cannot get any services here and I cannot believe what I have been through.</p> <p>I am a survivor and never wish to do myself in, but you'd wonder what I am to do at 56 in a system that gives me nothing and leaves me to cope on my own.</p> <p>I do that desperately and badly, the three althernatives are worse - the funny farm, a public nursing home, or the coffin.</p>

cancel  Posted: 31/03/2009 11:33

<p>Dear Broken</p> <p>It saddens me to read your account of medical treatment that clearly hasn't worked for you. This dosen't mean that it was all bad, it means it didn't work for you. I have recently become aware of the medical services in Ireland through my sister who lives in Dublin and I have to say the attidude of the medical profession to both the patient and visitor is abhorent. Without knowing where you sister lives, would it not be preferable for you to move to her area rather than the other way round? If its the UK you might be better off - I am not saying that there are no problems in our heatlh service, but I have never been treated or witnessed a patient being treated with such contempt as I experienced in Ireland. Is it just an 'elderly/aged' thing or are all patients treated the same?</p> <p>The fact that there are not enough training places available is very worrying, but what is more worrying is if the quality of training lacks a focus on how to treat a patient with courtesy, good manners, politeness and consideration.</p> <p><strong><em>Doctors of tomorrow</em></strong> must understand that good healthcare includes treating the patient with respect and dignity and that the majority of the patients they will see through their professional life will not be 'private patients/jam' but the bread and butter patients who need their commitment to treating them for whatever ails them. An ability to communicate at all levels is a skill that can be learned and should be taught as part of the overall academic achievement for everybody including the new professionals <strong><em>that we trust with our lives</em></strong>.</p> <p>Good luck everybody, I hope Dr O'Keefe; with the help of the public like you will now spearhead the change that is desperately needed in Ireland.</p> <p><img title="Smile" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" /><img title="Smile" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" /></p>

Broken  Posted: 31/03/2009 14:02

<p>it is a very hard call indeed.</p> <p>Here friends are moving away from the east end of London, she is loving her neuro at Queens, she hates hackney and she adores the sea and all the places around where we grew up.</p> <p>She notes the great friendliness in the shops and on the street and she never used to that.</p> <p>It really is do you go for 'life quality' in nature and environments, or do you go for being more or less in a place where you know noone and are declining.</p> <p>My twin and I do not know what to do.</p> <p>She does have some idea of what I have been through but she has slighter asperger and quickly forgets.</p> <p>I am heavily weighed down.</p> <p>We as a nation have strange values now, they're all over the place.</p> <p>nothing to me makes sense anymore in my country.</p> <p>A walk this morning in the dew at the park with two chihuahaus and the smell of the hyachinth I say, what care I for humans now.</p> <p>Isnt that awful sad.</p> <p>Sure we say we are civilized because we do not engage in cannabilism and yet kill in the name of Power not food and the powerful decide who lives and dies, and who has the right to.</p> <p>That is not civilised.</p> <p>I wish our values that were so dear to us as a nation would return.</p> <p>We did have soul and thats all we have at the end of the day, thats gone too.</p> <p>Why dont the Irish stand up to these doctors, why oh why is no one screaming from the roof tops over the pay Brendan drum and mary harney gets and all their advisers and bonuses.</p> <p>Is it because we are a depressed nation.</p> <p>What do people with depression do? They go into a sort of catatonic state, is that what the country has done, is this actually political psychological stratedgy, tell the citizens we are doomed, so that they can stay at the top because we are so dispirited and cannot fight anymore.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 31/03/2009 17:26

<p><span style="color: #0000ff;">To Sammi</span></p> <p>Thanks for your reply, isn't it very hard and degrading for the likes of all us here posting on any site on concerning management within the H.S.E. fighting for our "Health Rights", which on paper we are all entitled to. I believe it's nothing to do with our World Wide Recession as they our Government are saying.</p> <p>During our Celtic Years when there was full and plenty, Brendan Drumm and Mary Harney did not expand on health, they thought little about it. They didn't nor all their advisers have it checked with our growing population, expand, and expand into more health services right across the Board. Sure if anything were to happen to all those guys in high places they can be airlifted to the States to be looked after.</p> <p>I also complained to Patient Services, got no explanation for neglect they gave me cannot say it here, (but it had nothing to do with my Neurosurgery). The Doctor I won't name him, I would love to do it though, because if more Consultants were like the Neurosurgeon who looked after me we wouldn't have to fight for our rights. I also complained to the Medical Council, got lots of letters from the Council, my complaint was reviewed, but they did nothing. We can only get Consultants to be accountable under "The Fitness to Practice Act".</p> <p>As in your Husband's case I can see what you mean as regards the othopaedic doc not scanning him to see the situation, and your Husband if he had gotten this done a long time ago, he would have got an inter transferral from one consultant to the one that operated on him (Neurosurgeon)</p> <p>While I was an inpatient I witnessed back surgery besides head injuries been done. If persons who come to this site don't know, but for years we have a huge shortage of Neurosurgens, there is only two hospitals in Ireland to do this. Yes we're part of the E.U. and those who are entitled to come in here can come once they come from a member state. I believe what our Government did in the past never counted expansion of persons living here as in their health, if they needed health, and how many would apply for health, which was their right, and still is. But we are such a small country and our Leader/previous leader never took this into consideration. As I see things all they did was build big roads, wide lanes, the underground travel somewhere in the City Centre of Dublin to stop the gridlock. Same with buses, Luas, I could go on and on.</p> <p>I suppose readers here heard Brendan Drumm say yesterday 72 million euros in cuts must be found to keep in line within their Budget. the proposals will be put to Brian Lenihan our finance minister within the next 21 days. My husband with his orthopaedic surgery has a long haul to try get better and return to work. Ironicallly years ago he said to me I'll work till I drop, and his words came true, when he slipped on any icy road in early January 2009. He said this to me some years after my Surgery because he looked after me, our four small children, youngest being 3 years at that time. The clinics then didn't help us much. The likes of our situation happens to a lot of persons, we got into debt, took some years to get out of debt when I was able to manage, he returned to work. Now we're back to Zero we went through last recession in the 1980s like so many others did too. I know I'm probably saying too much, but why have these Health Services, when they don't deliver them properly as is as we all know written on paper again. Sorry for venting but I believe we live in a place of such inconvenience, they just don't care.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

badger5079  Posted: 31/03/2009 19:38

<p>Sammi:</p> <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Your husband's case seemed to benefit from the surgery so it was worth the risk.</span></p> <p>The risk associated with general anaesthetic include death and coma and a condition called malignant hyperpyrexia.</p> <p>While these risks are usually miniscule for the average patient, they may outwiegh the possibility of a cure from the surgery and if a surgeon assesses that the balance is in favour of not doing surgery, then he is obliged to take the cautious approach. If the risk of death from anaesthetic was 1 in 5000 in a case but the chance of a cure was also 1 in 5000, then the chances of death or a cure are equal. It is unethical to proceed in those circumstances in my view. I don't know what the circumstances of your husband's case were however, so I don't want to say too much. Also, doctors have to be mindful that it is unethical to spend limited public healthcare resources on chasing a very remote chance of a cure. There are many patients who have a good chance of surgical or medical cure and these may have to be prioritised over people whose chances of a cure are remote. These are the sorts of decisions that doctors have to make. Being human, we often give in and prescribe expensive courses of treatment, even when we know that they won't work because the patient or his/her relatives push and push for it. The outcome is usually the same and healthcare resources that could have been spent on other patients are gobbled up in the same way as most gamblers rarely have enough money to pay the bills.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 01/04/2009 13:18

<p>Dear chrissie and Broken.</p> <p>I totally get where ye are coming from. I had a car crash and suffered for years with my health. Fortunately i wasn't extensively injured but i suffered and i'm still not 100% right. I had 3 young children, the youngest 2 girls were only 1 and two. My life was ruined. Like you chrissie we have been in and out of debt. Back then i had to go through the pocess of seeing doctors and consultants who don't seem to have much care unless there is something broken. They don't have a clue when it comes to backs or muscle/ligament soft tissue injuries. although they are quick enough to tell ye chiropractors don't have a clue.</p> <p>Read Badgers post in response to my case. Now, doesn't it ring familiar, the tone, the defence, ect, that we have heard so many times before. Am i wrong.</p> <p>Broken.</p> <p>One thing is for sure, you may not know many people in the U.K but will certainly be taken better care of over there. they seem to have more morals and care for patients. also there is an accountability over there which is not here.</p>

Broken  Posted: 01/04/2009 13:42

<p>Hello Chrissie,</p> <p>Your story resonates with me. The struggle with severe illness/disabilities in this country is horrendous. A HELL ON EARTH.There are a lot of people here who are very articulate and angry and know the system in side out, by virtue of being in it, whether we came out is another question!</p> <p>Would it be useful to start a patients advocacy group?</p> <p>We have two, Patients Together and Patient Focus, but I am unsure if they are fully stretched to the limits, which I think they are, but we need a consistant, visable voice.</p> <p>Isnt there a chappie who comes every week to sit outside the dail for some issue?</p> <p>I would too be prepared to do that! I am not ashamed to be disabled, nor to be noticed. I am so angry with the services we all have got.</p> <p>No point putting anything in writing to the medical board. You can be as truthful as you can, as to the complaints of the HSE, nothing happens, you get a one liner back.</p> <p>No one has ever expanded who is on these complaints boards either</p> <p>We all have stories in us. What about a publication?</p> <p>Has anyone seen the patient charter in a credit card type fashion and seen what it says? I found this in the citizens advice bureau.</p> <p>Did you see where we lie in terms of Patient Empowerment in the Irish Times?</p> <p>Please we have to get those two over paid public servants OUT.</p> <p>I will, I think when the Budget is coming out start protesting visually with placard about the wages of both and their advisors.</p> <p>And why are the government not asking the judges to cough up cash to help?</p> <p>What is happening the voting machines in storage - why dont they sell em or burn em and save the money on their storage?</p> <p>What about Farmleigh house? Can that be used to bring in capitol.</p> <p>Why oh why does it always have to be the 'little people'</p> <p>Why. I really do feel, Irish people have to be vocal.</p> <p>Moaning and groaning in small circles and simmering under the skin is not going to do anything and that is what the goverment knows.</p> <p>They know we are now a depressed nation.</p> <p>That is where they want us in our psyche too.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 01/04/2009 13:56

<p>Badger</p> <p>You sound like a spin doctor. You are using absurd reasoning in a debate without addressing the situation at hand. this is exactly the kind of thing we as patients and people who have either been treated appalling in the hse system or have been failed, and by the Hse i mean, managers, consultants and doctors who are BEING PAID to not just to render a service, as care of people goes further than providing a 'service'.</p> <p>The risks you talk about are extreme and miniscule. But you use it as a defence anyway.</p> <p>And you use ethics as a defence, your kidding me.</p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;">Also, doctors have to be mindful that it is unethical to spend limited public healthcare resources on chasing a very remote chance of a cure. There are many patients who have a good chance of surgical or medical cure and these may have to be prioritised over people whose chances of a cure are remote. These are the sorts of decisions that doctors have to make.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">Your telling me it's unethical to spend money operating on a man who cannot walk or function as a human being. so now we get to the icing on the cake - money.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">On a very remote chance of a cure. Are you an orthopeadic / nuerosurgeon. If not i suggest you do your homework and research. And it's not a cure for a disease, it's a SURGICAL TREATMENT. A procedure, whereby removing 2/3 of a bulging disc which is causing severe nerve pain is the ONLY hope of relief.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #0000ff;">These are the sorts of decisions that doctors have to make.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">Well maybe we have the wrong people making the wrong decisions as plainly it all hinges on money. well that's ok for the well paid doctors and consultants - who are getting upto &euro; 400,000 a year isn't it. they can afford health insurance and private hospitals, which is exactly why they don't care a damn about the patients in the healthcare service. Why would they, they are living in a totally different world. a working man who is rearing a family and paying a mortgage and taxes and trying to hold down a job when he is crippled intermittently year in and year out hasn't a hope. But his life is in the hands of people who are supposed to be care givers, who are supposed to be competent and are supposed to be able to do the job they are getting paid to do.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #0000ff;">The outcome is usually the same and healthcare resources that could have been spent on other patients are gobbled up in the same way as most gamblers rarely have enough money to pay the bills.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">Well isn't that great to hear. the money was better spent on someone else. My husband wasn't worth the expense, or even a referral to a nuero surgeon who could do the surgery, no the money was better spent on someone else.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">You have summed up entirely what everyone is saying about how people are being treated in the hse and the attidudes of the staff who are employed in the hse. </span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">You need to read O Keefe's concerns.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">By the way, what is a pay rate for a doctor in hospital. is it &euro; 50,000 a year. Or are you are surgeon, maybe you earn &euro;100,000 a year or more.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">I'm sure you won't be worrying too much about keeping your job, your house, your car or feeding and clothing your children. And hey, if you get sick you'll get the best treatment available, as a doctor, you know the system.</span></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 01/04/2009 15:26

<p>Badger5079 re: post 31/03/2009 19:38</p> <p>Sammi's husband's condition with his spine-I as a lay person can see through Sammi's posting that the intervention her Husband needed was to be operated on by a Neurosurgeon. To have full proof of this I asked her on this Site and she acknowledged this to me. <span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="color: #000000;">Your last sentence,</span> The outcome is usually the same and healthcare resources that could have been spent on other patients are gobbled up in the same way as most gamblers rarely have enough money to pay the bills.</span></p> <p>I find this to be absolutely degrading to say such a statement. The only recourse for Sammi's husband was to be operated on by a Neurosurgeon, because it involved his spine. The othopaedic surgeon could not do same. Each Consultants Post whatever it is, be it Neuro, Orho, Gynae/obs, oncology, radiology, paediatrics, urology, all know about that part of within a whole human beings body, also checking out their stats/blood counts e.c.g. etc., if I can see her story right as a lay person, why cant you, it's in previous posts here. I also know of risks associated with anaesthesia, I went that route many times.</p> <p>I say it again the orthopaedic doctors who looked after Sammi's Husband did not order a CT Scan to see his situation. You are a Doctor, what I say here I learned through my own surgeries plus oncologists for my sister the way issues are raised in the medical profession.</p> <p>Charities for years have helped the H.S.E. for very expensive equipment to be in different hospitals in our 26 Counties. Even staff within the hospitals raise money for vital equipment. A hospital I did attend the Consultant there told me we can only work with the Tools we have. I do tell truths, how would I know what I say with having no friends or relatives in the medical field that all these high tech equipment which costs millions/billions are indeed called Tools.</p> <p>I'm inclined now to think that the young in the H.S.E. who provide services/or not, depends on what is available to the public patients in each of the Hospitals throughout our 26 Countries.</p> <p>To all that come across this, no matter what our emergercy budget brings next week, will they have it like the United States until 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, depending on World Wide Recession/that has also been called on our media as World Wide Depression, they'll look after private patients, and we the public sector who have no extravagant plan to enter private are left by the wayside. Please Editor let this go through, I am deeply angered by how we are treated.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>I say all this for all those living in our Ireland who through no fault of their own needed intervention got care when needed, and didn't get care when it was needed. There seems to be no-one accountable anymore to what goes on in our health services</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 01/04/2009 21:46

<p>Chrissie</p> <p>thanks for your response. do you know it has been on my mind all day. i was even going to consider asking someone else to read it and give their opinion as i thought maybe there was a possibilty i was taking it up wrong.</p> <p>i am well aware of the risks of anaesthesia also, after my first c-section, which was a direct result of hospital staff bungling up my premature labour, i was not left in a elevated position. i contracted pneumonia and came within a hairs breadth of death, i'm not exaggerating now. the staff didn't even tell my mum how bad i was. now albeit this was not in Ireland. however my second pregnancy was then also bungled, in Ireland. Knowing i'd had one section i was induced, i was fine until a doctor examined me, caused me great pain and BROKE my waters without even asking my consent or discussing it with me! the result a fast labour, no dilation and eventually - when my sister in law could get the midwife off the phone, finally an emergency section, they nearly killed me. all in i have to say i felt worse than livestock at a factory.</p> <p>I watched my husband and family suffer for years due to his disc herniation and toward the end, how he was bungled by the very doctors who are being paid to do a job and they are supposed to know what they are doing. Makes me furious.</p> <p>It's a known fact ortho surgeons are reluctant to operate, well what are they being paid for exactly. how many others like my husband out there are suffering. because like us they too have been fobbed off.</p> <p>I'd like to see the statistics.</p> <p>in all my years of dealing with animals i've seen them treated better by vets ethically and morally than i've seen patients being dealt with. we are like the livestock at the factory, just a herd number, waiting to be processed, except with animals you can be accountable and prosecuted. not so the hse and it's members of staff. they are to well protected in this social/political old boys club that is ruling ireland today.</p>

badger5079  Posted: 01/04/2009 22:38

<p>Sammi and Chrissie. Please re-read the first line of my post of the 31/03/2009...the part I underlined because I thought that you might get the wrong end of the stick. You will see that I said that Sammi's husband obviously needed the surgery as he benefited. The decision to keep him waiting was wrong...but in another case, the chances of a cure for the back pain might have been outwieghed by the risks of the surgery. These are the things that doctors have to weigh up all the time. Patients and their families often demand expensive treatments and investigations for illnesses and disease which may not be of benefit. Sometimes they do not believe their doctor and insist that they know better. Occasionally they will be right but most of the time, the problem is that the doctor does not communicate adequately with the patient to explain why things are being done a certin way.</p> <p>Since hospital doctors are deciding how limited funds will be allocated and not every body can get rapid treatment ot the most comprehensive treatment due to lack of funds, hard decisions have to be made. If doctors just gave in every time a patient insisted on antibiotics for a cold, or multiple endoscopies for constipation for instance then funds would quickly run out and dying children would have to go cancer treatment or whatever.</p> <p>The public wonder why MRSA is rampant yet they will complain when the doctor won't prescribe them an antibiotic for their influenza. Doctors need to be able to communicate better with patients so that patients can analyse the reasoning behind the decisions the doctor is making.</p> <p>It seems to me that there are a lot of people in Ireland these days who are insisting on their right to free treatment...but free is just a euphemism for "other people's" money. There are only a finite amount of "other people" to fund the dependents of our society. I am sorry that this sounds degrading but it a cold hard fact.</p> <p>I believe that a successful society is not built on the idea of paying a professional with a high skill level the same money as somebody who has no skill. People on the dole expect to receive the same amount of money even when the economy is tanking and productive people are having their wages slashed. The unproductive people are experiencing the least change to ther incomes while the most productive people are having high percentages of the money they earned taken away to prop up the socialist system. This is how we will build a society where the reward for hard work is earning close to the same and having the same lifestyle as somebody with no education who decides to breed uneducated children for a living.</p>

buzz  Posted: 02/04/2009 13:06

<p>Very well said Badger. I always find it amazing that there are people who think that welfare is their "due" when they have made little or no PRSI contributions throughout their lives. For some (not all) this is an alien idea. If one could receive the same money on welfare as those who toil for years in college and doing postgrad. study, where would the incentive to study be?? Now obviously a lot of people would still go ahead and pursue their desired careers because they woudl not want to sit around all day and rot, but why should no work be rewarded? (can I just say I am not referring to people who have genuinely lost their jobs recently) - if anything, I think the system should&nbsp;be graduated on a sliding scale so that say a man who&nbsp;has worked hard and payed huge&nbsp;PRSI all his life and has a mortgage and children who has recently lost his job should receive the HIGHEST payment. Those who have been on the dole since they turned 16 and havent bothered to educate or train themselves and show no work ethic should receive the lowest payment possible. the longer you have been on the dole, the less you get. They apply a similar theory with the "back to work" allowance where one can pursue part time employment ang retain 75% of their dole the first year, 50% the second etc etc, thereby providing an incentive to return to work and essentially "wean" people off welfare.</p> <p>Regards</p>

Broken  Posted: 02/04/2009 17:19

<p>The debate now ensueing on this topic of why our hospitals simply are not working is a complex one.</p> <p>It is interesting to note that the scandanavian model of insurance for all health fro all people is working well, but the same in America is definitely NOT!</p> <p>Also the Nordic countries score well on 'patient empowerment'</p> <p>We are now having another round table expert thingy to see why the hospitals are not working.</p> <p>I thought one of those round table sorees did take place over and over again to see why this and that wasnt working.</p> <p>"Action not words" was my school motto.</p> <p>Doesn't seem to be the Governments.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 03/04/2009 02:21

<p>To Sammi sorry for late reply, yes I got that attitute in Hospitals it rings familiar, you are not wrong.</p> <p>To Broken also sorry for late reply. Yes I agree with what you say (We try to get that chappie who comes every week for some issues, if others could input in how we do this it would it be a start. Get all our stories out without naming Hospitals, and naming Consultants to tell them&nbsp;how we were and still are treated so horrendiously by medics. Also praise those who did treat us right.&nbsp;</p> <p>That they the Health Service Executive failed us, and did not deliver what's written on their Sites. Did not deliver what's written on their H.S.E. Booklets. Did not deliver on&nbsp;Patient Charter Rights.&nbsp;Did not deliver on Medical Council Book, and its site on the web. We could have our say on that street that it is our right to know because we live in Ireland and are part of the E.U. that statements in all Booklets published&nbsp;did not deliver, highlight where one thinks it was not delivered. I say again with a small country such as ours there are not enough services here with such a huge population to deliver to save lives, or fix Lives if then can.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;Could we even guess the huge amount of money they spend on getting all these books printed, and delivering them on the web? I believe that actions speaks louder than words like Broken has said. These are the questions we should ask. We do this to express that we are now concerned for our Grown up children,&nbsp;their children, and our small children. That they not live a life of misery and drudgery throughout our World Wide Recession-it has happened to our parents when they were children, it took a long time to get out of debt, and then again in the eighties. I am now more with a positive attitute that the people of today will not take this.</p> <p>Brandy what you said was delivered in a nutshell:- EVERYBODY DESERVES AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE AND SURVIVE......NO MATTER IF THEY COME FROM FOXROCK OR TALLAGHT.......!!! No one could have said it finer than you, and in so such a short way. You also said Equal distribution.</p> <p>I hope what I say here will eventually come to fruition for our future generation, I believe we cannot take progress away, then drop it like like a hot cake, if&nbsp;Brendanm Drumm is allowed to cutback even further than the situation we are in already,&nbsp;Persons who come to this Site please reflect on what is thought about the value of human Life. I believe it to be within the EU Rights in Brussels, think it's called European&nbsp;Convention Rights.</p> <p>Chrissie&nbsp;</p>

Broken  Posted: 03/04/2009 05:46

<p>More waste of money in HSE reported in the papers today over the appointments or lack of 4 supposed key workers in HSE.</p> <p>It clearly means - they have not a B..notion what they are doing!</p> <p>"what is to be done, what is to be done" does something like that get said by the irresponsible Mr. toad in 'the wind in the willows?'</p>

Claire  Posted: 03/04/2009 09:40

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It seems to me that there are a lot of people in Ireland these days who are insisting on their right to free treatment...but free is just a euphemism for "other people's" money. There are only a finite amount of "other people" to fund the dependents of our society. I am sorry that this sounds degrading but it a cold hard fact</span>.</p> <p>Hello Badger,</p> <p>I have been following the discussion here and find it sad that the conditions in our health service can give rise to the the disagreements that are arising. I think we all probably have the same aim i.e. better health service for everybody. It is as if the powers that be are trying to divide and conquer, and they will achieve this if we are fighting among ourselves and losing sight of the bigger picture which is the appalling indefensible state of our health service.</p> <p>Badger, I (as a former health worker ) felt your initial post was quite balanced. But I have to take issue with the above. I have worked for many years and paid tax and PRSI. I had to take early retirement for health reasons and no doubt if you met me today you would see me as "a dependent of our society." I disagree. What I get from the state is a return on what I contributed when I was able. During the years when I was working, I was glad to be able to contribute to those who needed Social Welfare at that time. That is what community is about. That is what democracy is about. Incidentally, I still pay tax on my invalidity pension.</p> <p>What you call a "right to free treatment" is actually a right to treatment paid for by the people through tax and PRSI (pay related social insurance). Perhaps our mistake is to trust the government and The HSE to administer this money...our money. They are running the health service as a business, not a service. The difference is that in a business, money is the all important bottom line, where in a service, people are the most important bottom line. To get back to my original point, treatment in the public health service is not free. It is an entitlement to all the people in this democratic state paid for by the people living in this state. The reality is that people who choose to pay for private health insurance are making a choice to pay twice. It is the choice that is free, not the treatment. I</p> <p>In all my years working and since retirement, I have met many people in receipt of social welfare payments. But I NEVER met anybody who would not prefer to be in a position where they could work and be independent.</p> <p>Claire.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 03/04/2009 10:08

<p>Badger</p> <p>Perhaps it would of served you better to put your opinions across in two seperate posts.</p> <p>You say my husband obviously needed surgery as he benefitted. By this statement you have contradicted yourself, contradicted doctors, and contradicted the consultants.</p> <p>Note we only have the hard facts that he benefited as we had to GO PRIVATE to get treatment refused to him under hse. Rather than you seeing this as a disgrace you come out in defence of doctors, consultants and even the hse.</p> <p>You fail to acknowledge that in some cases of a herniated disc, surgery is THE ONLY ANSWER. It carries no gaurentees, but hey, if it means someone can actually walk again and may recover enough fully to return to work and lead a life where they are not a cripple, surely THE BENEFITS OUTWIEGH the risks?</p> <p>My father worked, my grandfather worked my brothers and sisters have all worked my in-laws have all worked and my husband has worked since the day he left school and even i have worked when i can while rearing children and we have all paid taxes. YES WE KNOW NOTHING IS FREE.</p> <p>That is the idea of paying tax and prsi isn't it. We pay as a nation ( not including the element of sociaty who have never worked )the government so we can avail of health care / social welfare when we need it. We have had these discussions on other sites here.</p> <p>MRSA is rampant as most hospitals are filthy, plenty of feedback from others on this too. another result of a beurocratic system. this government has proved time and again it's greed and mis-spending of PUBLIC money.</p> <p>If doctors were giving out anti-biotics willie nilly, surely one would wonder why trained professionals who should know better are doing this?</p>

caric  Posted: 03/04/2009 10:51

<p>I refer to the statement in red below.</p> <p>There will always be dependents in society and there will always be people, who for some reason or another, need and deserve help. We should never turn our backs on such people. Remember, you or someone belonging to you, could find yourselves in difficult circumstances through no fault of your own and may need 'free help or information or whatever'.</p> <p>I suspect the point you're trying to make is in relation to people who 'live of society' and expect everything for free, not just hospital services. The reality is, nothing is for free, the money has to come from somewhere. In that respect, I agree with your point. There are too many people, who have been allowed do that without ever having to make any contribution to the state or society as a whole. They, to be blunt about it, rob money from the areas where it is really needed and health inparticular. However, 'robbing money from the areas where it is really needed' can be attributed to state quangos, government spin doctors, committees, tribunals, excessive staff levels, project overruns and just appalling bad management by the government and it's various departments including the HSE. So it's a bit difficult for the government to point the finger or take action against those who 'live off society' when they, themselves won't take accountability and sort out the serious problems closer to home. Hence the push internally and externally for government to make public sector reforms. I await like the rest of you to see what they put forward. Now we are in recession, people are kicking back more and more, that's one of the positive aspects of what has happened.</p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It seems to me that there are a lot of people in Ireland these days who are insisting on their right to free treatment...but free is just a euphemism for "other people's" money. There are only a finite amount of "other people" to fund the dependents of our society. I am sorry that this sounds degrading but it a cold hard fact</span>.</p>

Broken  Posted: 03/04/2009 11:28

<p>Hello Hell,</p> <p>Remember, one day you might be a 'dependent' and most certainly will if you reach old age!</p>

badger5079  Posted: 03/04/2009 22:41

<p>Claire:</p> <p>The average life expectancy of the Irish population is rising all the time. This may be due to the efforts of the medical profession who generally are guardians of peoples' health. (GPs get no remuneration specifically for preventative healthcare such as helping people lose weight or stop smoking or to lower their cholesterol or control their blood pressure but this is another matter). When you were working, the average life expectancy would have been lower so there would have been less retirees depending upon exchequer funds for a pension (to which they are entitled).</p> <p>To compound the problem, the birth rate is dropping as people become more well off and experience a rise in their disposable incomes over the last few decades. This means that the number of net contributors is dropping while the number of net beneficiaries of the social welfare net is rising.</p> <p>Finally, with respect to healthcare, the cost of modern and advanced treatments rises all the time as many medicines are funded throught ther R+D phase by mega corporations who are hungry for a return on their investment. They even send pharmaceutical reps running around the hospitals trying to give talks about the latest expensive cutting edge medication while bribing us with free lunches and pens and USB sticks so that we subliminally feel obliged to think of their products the next time we are prescribing.</p> <p>I agree that it is very difficult to make a profit out of public healthcare when you have to treat all comers. Many people have mutiple chronic ailments and could never contribute enough funds to over the costs of their treatment to the healthcare system. However, there is always room for more business-like practices and cost-cutting measures in healthcare. The trouble is that this should be lead by doctors and nurses to some extent as pen-pushers tend to focus on the numbers while ignoring patient care.</p>

badger5079  Posted: 03/04/2009 22:51

<p>The current model of funding for public healthcare and pensions from current tax takes is doomed as it does not take into account the shifts in the population demographics that I have described i.e. a higher number of old people who tend to be in the dependent/beneficiary category and a lower number of young people who are supposed to be in the worker/producer category. This fact combined with the increasing costs of evolving medical care means that the people who were paying PRSI and PAYE 30 years ago have not put enough money into the system to fund their own pensions and healthcare. This is through no fault of their own but it is unfortunately true.</p> <p>To put it even more bluntly, the current model of using the taxes of today to fund the healthcare and pensions of today is based upon an outdated figures for life expectancy. Increasing standards in health care and nutrition and working conditions compared to previous decades mean that people are living longer and requiring more handouts. This is unsustainable. It's not a loaves and fishes situation. People on the frontlines of the health service have to work within a strict budget if the public health care system is to survive. There also needs to be a wholly transparent system for funding the health system so that the public can see where there is value for money and where there is waste.</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 04/04/2009 18:18

<p>hi Chrissie</p> <p>Finally got all the paperwork in for hubby's illness benefit, but forgot to submit doctors note, so no money. then the run around began. Went to community welfare officer, who has a reputation for being obnoxious and un-caring and un-helpful, he was actually removed from one area to ours. Wanted to know where was hubby, why wasn't he in. Was more interested in virtually telling me i was a liar! and he found my story hard to believe! because i never claimed sooner for myself. I told him hubby was un-able to claim for me as he was incapacitated. " why didn't you come in yourself " I told him that i was ran off my feet back and forth hospital and doctors with hubby and didn't have time. I said it bore no relevance on the reason i was in to him. He offered no advice and just told me it wasn't his problem. Then off to the social welfare, where i was told she wouldn't dicuss claim with me as it was his. Had to get him to come in, I had been dealing with all the paperwork and when he was there i tried to talk to her and she said " i'm not talking to you, it's his claim, it has nothing to do with you" the whole morning was a very demeaning and very upsetting episode. these people make you feel like dirt on their shoes, yet they are being paid to assist you.</p> <p>I have to be honest, seeing the way the public sector workers treat the private sector workers i'm not surprised there is animosity.</p> <p>I hope you fair better than i have. i get so frustrated i just want to cry.<img title="Cry" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-cry.gif" border="0" alt="Cry" /></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 05/04/2009 05:53

<p>To Badger 5079 Re: your post 01/04/2009 to Chrissie and Sammi</p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">I did indeed take into account what you underlined on your post </span><span style="color: #000000;">31/03/2009</span> <span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Your Husband's case seemed to benefit from the surgery so it was worth the risk</span>: </span></p> <p>I believe what you failed to say here is, you either know or don't know anything to do with orthopaedics. What the othopaedics did for years was not investigate further as to why his disks bulged out so much. It's not what they did, it's what they failed to do. Had they done this especially in the latter years the orthopaedic consultant could have written to a Neurosurgeon to have him investigated on their findings. There would have been a wait to see a Neurosurgeon, and a further elective waiting list for him to be admitted on a Neurosurgery Ward. I believe you to be sitting on the Fence with all you have posted here because wording is contradictory. Have a look at your posts to know this.</p> <p>In the longterm would you not agree that had it been picked up about his back before it surrounded the spinal fluid around his spine, that just maybe he could have been done by ortho or if not, passed onto a Neurosurgeon. So for all those years as he got worse the medics who saw Sammi's Husband wasted HSE money. He is now on road to recovery, and did not end up a cripple as Sammi said. Fortunately they could get the money to go privately for Neurosurgery so he would not become a cripple. (Would just like to point out I'm not against those who can afford private medical insurance) I know for a fact by being admitted on many occasions in Neurosurgery that it also involved the spine as well as the brain.</p> <p>____________________________________________________________________</p> <p>Badger 5079 also in this post on 01/04/2009 you also said:-</p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;">The unproductive people are experiencing the least change to their incomes while the most productive people are having high percentages of the money they earned taken away to prop up the socialist system. This is how we will build a society where the reward for hard working is earning close to the same and having the same lifestyle as somebody with no education who decided to breed uneducated children for a living.</span></p> <p>Would you let us know exactly what you mean about this above? Am I or all who come to this Site take it that you mean all those who do manual labour, like those who clean our hospitals, those who clean toilets in hospitals, those who clean our roads, cut grass on open fields, plant shrubs flowers in hospital grounds, do drainage system, bin men. There's more I could name who pay their dues in PRSI and income tax/PAYE. These are the very people who keep the wheels in motion. If they were not part of the system to do these jobs how would any Hospital any Company schools Colleges Universities progress to do the things they are trying to do.</p> <p>Or did you mean those who live on the dole/unemployment assistance most of their lives, and breed uneducated children for a living, so that when they reached aged 18 years they would get the dole money too? I find this word put in print here <span style="color: #0000ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">who decided to breed</span> </span>to be not applicable to any human female extremely abhorrent, whether you stated it doctor way, or male/female way.</p> <p>If you can find the time to put forward a synopsis of how you see the health services we have now at this moment in time, how to make it work, what you can teach us because I found a quite interesting Site here <strong><span style="color: #0000ff;">'We Still gets most </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">things right' - Brendan Drumm</span> </strong><span style="color: #0000ff;">[Posted Thu 13/11/2008]</span> which I believe for reasons being not many postings on it was the October Budget 2008 well before we ever learned we had a World Wide Recession. One of his most interesting quotes was <span style="color: #ff0000;">On his remuneration and the often negative comments he says: "I think this is incredible considering that most people in the health service in </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">clinical posts at my level</span> (his level was in obstetrics/Gynaecology) <span style="color: #ff0000;">in fact a very</span> <span style="color: #ff0000;">significant amount of them earn far more than me, between their public and private practice"</span></p> <p>All of us here - with this coming emergency budget/now named Silver Bullet on Tuesday can Brian Cowan get away to shut down more health services than has already happened come this Tuesday. Or in the weeks that follow when Brendan Drumm puts forward to our Government, can we all including private patients take this approach?</p> <p>We're all weary and tired of hearing we must balance the books so how many will be further neglected, will die because of corruption by our banks, builders, they the big tigers with money, lots of money no doubt signed up for th SSIA Scheme and reaped it financially for all those with RSI Nos: over a Five Year term. Then on the next year our Goverment gave even more a chance to opt for this, and they did. They all sat in the Dail for months wondering where things went wrong. It's as plain as their nose on their face.</p> <p>I was brought up to save for a rainy day, why didn't our government do likewise. This is what they are doing to us, the HSE Brendam Drumm, Mary Harney Department of Health. As I've said already in the Celtic Years Brendan Drumm and Mary Hearney did not give more to health care when healthcare was needed, and is still needed, because we have not only got the irish citizens, we have EU citizens, asylum seekers, (they are righfully due to be here under EU regulations) persons who come here just have a look at the site for Ireland <a href=""></a> to see for themselves. No matter what excuses they make, wrong doings were done, and it should not have gone that way. This is my belief, we do not pay for their mistakes and take a downfall again as it happened in the eighties.</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 14/04/2009 18:00

<p>To&nbsp;Sammi and Broken</p> <p>On the&nbsp;21/3/2009 I put post here #15. In part of it I wrote about Doctors being able to operate on persons aged 16 and under 18.</p> <p>After long search I found Site @ It comes under NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSONS ACT, 1997 under Section 23 Consent by minor over 16 years to surgical, medical and dental treatment.</p> <p>I ask yous all here if given time to maybe comment on this, as I see our Government allow&nbsp;young adolescents who cannot vote until they are age 18 years, and yet it was passed for them between 16-to just under 18 to sign legal form for operations whether it be elective surgery. Am I too naive to think that one of the most important events to happen to a young person is surgical intervention and they can sign for this without consent from either parent/or guardian. This enactment happened in 1997.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p><img title="Surprised" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 15/04/2009 08:56

<p>To Editor and readers</p> <p>To add to post&nbsp;I sent late yesterday for persons to check about young children being allowed to sign form for operations between age 16 to under 18 years of age. The exact web site is found on:- <a href="http://www.irishstatutebook,ie/1997/en/act/pub/no26/sec0023.html#zza26y1997s23">www.irishstatutebook,ie/1997/en/act/pub/no26/sec0023.html#zza26y1997s23</a> It comes under Irish Statute Book, Acts of the oireachtas, Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997, Section 23 To save typing into this site persons who wish&nbsp;can just click on above, and it brings you there, then you&nbsp;can go back to (I only say this as a helping tool-I found out the hard way to find this site.</p> <p>I am most interested in feedback as to what persons may think of this enactment. I may be repeating what I said, but the way I see our system years ago way back in 1970s one could not be operated on except by a parent/s or guardian signed consent. Equally they could not vote until there were age 21 years. Then at some time they lowered voting age to 18, and I thought this would be made same with operations until they reached age 18</p> <p>Do hope I get feedback, I'm going to ask this question to those who knock on our door for coming June Local Elections, and the EU elections.</p> <p>Chrissie&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

Broken  Posted: 15/04/2009 19:29

<p>Chrissie points out some things that Badger has said on this site where he refers to working class people, those who do not have to pay tax and 'breed children'</p> <p>I find this highly offensive and Badger's remarks all along are provocative and unnessesary.</p> <p>I guess Badger doesn't live in Social Housing!</p> <p>I do, sort of, in Badger's view 'downgrading' from my middleclass and educated background.</p> <p>Well being sick now I never see my extremely wealthy family, they have never helped me, but here in social housing we look after each other and do things for each other.</p> <p>EVERYONE here on this street has their own story and sometimes most horrendous.</p> <p>People here have never had the advantages the likes of Badger and I had.</p> <p>I resent you calling people with major life issues, sickness et al as spongers and breeders of children.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 16/04/2009 17:32

<p>To Broken</p> <p>What I tried to get Badger to address was, did he mean those who had no skills/trades etc the liikes of those who clean hospitals. Or did he mean those who breed children who live off our government.</p> <p>I like you found this word <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Breeding</span> used by Badger to be abnoxious to our society. Badger does not know life, and the twists and turns that can happen revolve around one's life and their Family.</p> <p>Badger a Medical Doctor took at oath to do no harm, to have utmost respect of patients creed, religion, circumstances (There's a lot said when they graduate to become Doctors within this Hipppocratic Oath) - but do they take head of the words they say? I doubt it.</p> <p>If Badger knew the way of life as time goes by to those so called persons who had no other redress but to get long term assistance as it was called then. While trying to bring up their children they did not live off the fat of our land. Education is not free here, never was. To those who live in Council Homes would I would like Badger to know whether parents working or not working, they being Joint Tenants have to pay a lot of money per week based on the income of their grown up children. Husband is not the main bread earner, if one of their children earn more than him or spouse rent is based on that gross income per week. So all our Fianna Fail Government is doing is bringing those who cannot pay, further down the gutter than they already are.</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

buzz  Posted: 17/04/2009 11:40

<p>Although it is not nice to tar everyone with the same brush, I find it irritating that those who have not made much of themsleves seem to justify it by&nbsp;saying that those who HAVE succeeded in life did so only because they had more advantages. Just like it is incorrect to assume that everyone who is on welfare is a sponger, it is also incorrect to assume that everyone who achieves marked success in life does so simply because they have had opportunities thrown at them. Some people overcome obstacles and it is sheer hard work and determination that sees them through. I have a cousin whose family live in a council house, mother never worked, father worked as a part time car park attendent so there was never any money there for new clothes or fancy food, never mind what they considered to be outlandish luxuries such as cars, private schools, grinds etc. He worked hard, got an entrance scholarship to a high profile Dublin university and is now halfway through a phd in pure maths. Similarly, there were people that I went to school with who had every opportunity - musical instruments, drama, expensive sports, grinds, private school etc and they never made much of themselves!</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 17/04/2009 17:23

<p>Just letting you know here way back in my post 21/3/2009 #15 I told you of how my Daughter was down for elective admission. Yesterday morning she rang "Admissions" as was told to do at 10.30am. She was told <span style="color: #ff0000;">"They are out the door </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">with A&amp;E admissions".</span> They will be sending her out another letter for admission.</p> <p>I realise those in A&amp;E have to have immediate treatment while they wait one day, two days, or even more to be put in appropiate ward to be taken care of. We've heard so much on the media over the years all those waiting on trolleys in A&amp;E to be admitted.</p> <p>I said on the posting 21/3/2009 that I'd take to the street but unfortunately I cannot be heard, she's an adult. What have we become to endure this torture that many Hospitals only admit people who need immediate intervention?</p> <p>Where is Brian Cowen living, not in the real world, Brian Lenihan not in the real world, Mary Harney not in the real world. This is not only hitting public patients, it's also hitting private patients.</p> <p>Recession/Depression for 2009, the start of it, lets see 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, how many wil die without medical intervention? or will that also be brushed under the carpet.</p> <p><br />Chrissie</p>

JamesH  Posted: 20/04/2009 10:02

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: small;">Chrisse,</span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: small;">&nbsp;</span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: small;">You are correct that the non-fatal offences against the persons act does allow 16 to 18 years to consent to medical treatment. The reason for this is to allow for the reality that a lot of young people in this age group are in fact living away from home and are taking care of their day to day needs. A prominent example would be school-leavers going to third level, and also young people in apprenticeships. In all other aspects of their life they are acting as young adults and taking care of themselves and so this act allows them to consent to receive medical treatment. An interesting aspect is that the act does not allow them to refuse treatment.</span></span></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 21/04/2009 20:39

<p>JamesH</p> <p>Thank you for checking this, the end of your post <span style="color: #0000ff;">An interesting aspect is that the act does not allow them to refuse treatment. <span style="color: #000000;">Well said, because the likes of other ages over 18 can refuse treatment if they so wish. </span></span></p> <p>Well I went back in and checked Non Fatal offenses against the persons act again. Under Section 23:- In paragraph (1) it states:-</p> <p>(1) The consent of a minor who has obtained the age of 16 years to any surgical, medical or dental treatment which, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">in the absence of consent, would</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline;">constitute a trespass to his or her person</span> shall be as effective as it would be if he or she were of full age.</p> <p>(Just thinking in what I have underlined is your thinking too?) would welcome more feedback from yourself.</p> <p>To all readers here way back when our daughter was 17 we knew about her forthcoming operation, were there with her when she signed form, just were surprised that such a thing came into being. JamesH do you or some other reader know the year that they changed voting from age 21 to 18 years? I ask this because I've looked up many sites on <a href=""></a> to find this enactment.</p> <p>From todays news well we heard what the HSE are trying to introduce, we're hearing stories on the radio the likes of which we never heard before. The reality of living life is hitting everyone in our island of Ireland.</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

Anonymous  Posted: 24/04/2009 10:37

<p>There is certainly an anomaly there. The act does in fact allow minors to refuse treatment in that their consent must be obtained, thereore if they refuse to consent to a treatment they are in essence refusing treatment. The act does however mean that, yes they can consent to treatment without the knowledge of paents or guardians and yes, they can also consent to treatment against the wshes of a parents - and have their meidcal confidentilaity respected. Bear in moind that 16 year olds even tho they cannot vote, can work and pay taxes, can live on theoir own (for example at college) and can form relationships.</p>

Sigl  Posted: 24/04/2009 20:56

<p>Reading Dr. O'Keeffe's contribution and the following replies have saddened me beyond words.&nbsp; It is atrocious to realize that so many&nbsp;people are so dreadfully treated.&nbsp; Animals are treated much much better.&nbsp; Sack Mary Harney and Brendan Drumm and let Dr. O'Keeffe run the system.&nbsp; He sees what is wrong and is not living in a fool's paradise.&nbsp; What are&nbsp;Mary Harney and Brendan Drumm&nbsp;doing all day?&nbsp; Why not visit A&amp;Es,&nbsp;wards, talk to patients!&nbsp; They seem to be making no effort whatsoever to understand the situation.&nbsp; People are so angry and&nbsp;so let down.&nbsp; It is worse the situation&nbsp;is getting.&nbsp; Where&nbsp;will it end?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

badger5079  Posted: 24/04/2009 23:26

<p>Chrissie I never referred to people who have skills or trades or any job as making a life choice to breed children. I realise that there are many people who have recently become unemployed due to the recession and they need help to get back into employment. I also understand the need for the provision of subsidised haelthcare for vulnerable groups as long as it is properly means tested. The people I object to are those who leave school aged 14 so that they can hang around on street corners, break into peoples' cars and houses, then have babies before they are out of their own parents' homes, all the while knowing that the government will give them a free house for managing the great feat of conceiving a teen pregnancy. Why should I or any other worker have to pay for to maintain these lazy, leeches?</p> <p>So many times, the Emergency rooms are brought to a halt by gangs of belligerents who are spending their welfare on beer, cocaine and ecstasy and the latest Nike trainers. Then our government decides to prioritise the emergency department funding to the deteriment of outpatient care and elective admissions. It's just a political line-drawing exercise. Most patients who come to the emergency department could be manages in an outpatient setting or a community setting and this would prevent them getting to the stage where they are rolling up to the emergeny department in crisis. Chrissie's husband is a case in point. The orthopaedics service did not do a good job but if they did, he would have had elective surgery. (I still stick to my contention that the majority of people who come to the emergency with exacerbation of chronic back pain do not need admission - I have worked in emergency departments across the country but perhaps the lay bloggers know better than I do. After all, what's a medical degree and several years of medical experience next to Google?).</p>

JamesH  Posted: 25/04/2009 17:10

<p>Chrissie &amp; Anon (24/4)</p> <p>I am not sure what your difficulty is here. For all under 18 year old a parent may consent or refuse treatment on behave of their child. The NFOP 1997 act also allows 16-18 year olds to consent, to allow for the very real fact that many 16-18 are looking after all other aspects of their life away from home and so this act alos allows them to consent to medical treatment. This really was designed to allow a 16-18 to receive basic medical treatment away from home say in university without the need for parents to travel down to the university town to give consent.</p> <p>Anon, There is no anomaly here. Only a parent can refuse treatment, but a 16-18 can accept treatment. The only time when controversy might arise is in a life-threatening situation and the 16-18 was refusing treatment. In that situation the doctors might appeal to the parents to obtain consent.</p> <p>In the UK there is the Gillick principle of consent where any child of any age may refuse treatment if they can display sufficient knowledge and maturity. There have been some high profile cases of terminally ill children refusing any more treatment under this principle. The courts still have the power to overule in the best interests of the child for example in the case of an anorexia child refsuing treatment. This aspect of law has not yet been tested in court in Ireland so we do not know what would happen in Ireland in these situations.</p>

Broken  Posted: 28/04/2009 13:46

<p>Badger, your last sentence in your recent comment smacks of a 'dose of self pity?"</p> <p>Yes, you are right, kids are having babies, young boys et all are running riot.</p> <p>I had seven stones thrown through my home recently on three different occassions!</p> <p>But I live in social housing and the kids are the products of their parents. &nbsp;There is not a CULTURE of what education can do for the younger generation.</p> <p>Ask any child under 11 in social housing and the first thing they say is they are OUT of school on the first opportunity.</p> <p>They have lived life on the edge, parents usually are troubled, uneducated and the stress has been huge, little attention really goes on the education. &nbsp;It goes to getting money any which way to support their lives (parents) and their kids.</p> <p>Most in social housing are good people, very helpful to fellow neighbours.</p> <p>Unless they actually do have a grasp of what a good education can do, nothing will change.</p> <p>Recently we have the first Irish traveller boy taking the leaving certificate. &nbsp;Which is great, tell me how he will fare getting a job with an address as 'Halting site...on such and such a verge of road"</p> <p>When Foxrock was asked to change their number code on their address there was uproar as status would be lowered but it does help to have an address of status.</p> <p>Tell me how these people in social housing can crack the cycle? &nbsp;Who are the people selling the cider and beer, who are the people destroying the lives of very young vulnerable children and teens through drugs?</p> <p>Its a matter of cart before the horse.</p> <p>For want of a better word, the lower classes have only one thing on their mind, money. &nbsp;It would not be education first.</p> <p>This is their legacy through generations of both culture, habit, family ways and dynamics.</p> <p>When you and the educated have cracked that, maybe they will crack the eduation bit.</p> <p>xAnn</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 29/04/2009 15:30

<p>JamesH</p> <p>To explain difficulty, what you wrote on post #67 I entirely agreed with your writing. We have a Country here that allows minors to work away from home, be educated away from home, be living life in all other aspects like&nbsp;grown ups. I have no&nbsp;doubt from help from their parents/grandparents to set them on this trail to gain employment of their choice whatever it may be.</p> <p>What I said in another post here was if they can operate on aged 16 to just under eighteen should they not be allowed vote as well. Well after going through our EU List we have 27 Member States. I found that Austria being one of our EU States lowered voting age to 16 in May 2007. Austria&nbsp;is eligible to vote in our forthcoming EU election in June, and elections in their own Country. I also found out that "Austria thus became the first member of the European Union, and the first of the World's leading democracies, to adopt a voting age of 16 for all purposes. Readers it is my belief that&nbsp;should we&nbsp;bring this to be brought to meetings in our Fianna Fail Government/other political parties&nbsp;to try and implement this to happen so that they our small children and future generation do not witness&nbsp;a recession like the 1980s, and are now knowing our present recession which is depriving human rights to our Republic of Ireland.</p> <p>I also found in <a href=""></a>&nbsp;the lowering of voting age from 21 to 18 happened in the Fourth Amendment Act, 1972. I think our Country should try to address this lower voting age to all our political patries, after all being a member of our EU we have 4.5 million people living here, no wonder health matters aren't&nbsp;working.</p> <p>I do hope Editor that you let this go out for the sake of our shambles of a health system here. I&nbsp;strongly think that not only Brendam Drumm, Mary Hearney are involved in why our hospitals simply aren't working, it also involves our Minister for Finance.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>our health is our wealth, if it carries on throughout this recession cutbacks for health-where will it all end</p>

JamesH  Posted: 29/04/2009 16:17

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: small;">Chrissie,</span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: small;">I am losing your train of thought here. I don&rsquo;t understand how allowing 16 year olds to vote would improve the hospitals. 3 elections in row the current Gov has been voted in. I see no evidence that had 16 year olds been allowed to vote the result would be any different.</span></span></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 29/04/2009 17:20

<p>JamesH</p> <p>My train of thought is that before we vote we have an opportunity to give views to those our Political parties that 16 year olds are indeed more educated than those of years gone by. I went through the 1980s recession, just like many others. We foolishly trusted our present government to handle things in the right way, but they are neglecting our health system, and indeed other systems like the Banks I could go on and on.</p> <p>&nbsp;I have faith that people now will not take this lying down. It's on the Media most every day what our Fianna Fail government did to us and stated by educated journalists.</p> <p>Were we foolish, we were all leading our lives - were we to keep an eye of them by 24/7 as hospitals should do for customers/patients, but won't do because of cutbacks.</p> <p>I am talking about next general election which is due in 2012 to try and bring voting age to 16. JamesH is this more explanatory.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

Broken  Posted: 29/04/2009 17:48

<p>What we need in government is a coalition between the upper house, the senate and the dail and take the best from all parties from both houses, those who have EDUCATION as their basis and put them in their area of expertise and not have people who decide to go into politics, alot with out expertise in any area whatsoever.</p> <p>We need to pool the cream of all existing parties and forget about the party line and dogma or whatever you call it.</p> <p>Otherwise we are getting nowhere.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

JamesH  Posted: 29/04/2009 19:35

<p>Chrissie,</p> <p>If right was right the FF Gov should be annihilated at the next election. However there is no guarantee.</p> <p>However I really have seen no evidence that the results will be any different regardless of having 16-18 years voting or not. The 16-18 year olds are only a small % of the electorate and may not vote in great numbers anyway.</p>

badger5079  Posted: 30/04/2009 03:35

<p>Broken, you said:</p> <p>"Badger, your last sentence in your recent comment smacks of a 'dose of self pity?"</p> <p>I believe you are mistaking sarcasm for self pity.</p> <p>You ask how people in social housing can crack the cycle.</p> <p>My answer is that most of them can't.</p> <p>The best way to stop the cycle is to stop encouraging them to have children when they can't afford them and won't or can't rear them properly. This entails not giving any free house to a teen mother so that she receives no reward for having a baby in her teens. Also, unemployment benefits should only last for 12 months before you have to do some form of work to maintain the payments (unless you are disabled).</p> <p>Condoms should be provided for free in social housing estates.</p> <p>I am merely advocating a passive and sensible re-engineering of society to improve it.</p>

Broken  Posted: 30/04/2009 17:02

<p>Crumbsy crumbs Badger, you are not living in the real world, sure how do you stop kids having babies? &nbsp;They hardly know where babies come from and most regret it profoundly when they see the hard work it takes and not of these children, yes children in mind and makeup fully realise the consequences until after the event.</p> <p>Take for instance LOVE, you are madly in love with someone for years and you only find out about the person three months after living with them permanently and you say OH Oh i made one hell of a mistake here! &nbsp;that what happens with the baby things.</p> <p>Also babies are, more than babies, these girls are sometimes extremly troubled, they have the same situation across the sea too.</p> <p>Once these children have kids its the end of the road, in terms of most things.</p> <p>They cannot exactly sent the baby back and most likely they will either love it to bits or blame it.</p> <p>We, as a nation are, lets say not terribly modern and clued in, we are a young nation only 60yrs in existance.</p> <p>We are not like america (thank GOd) which germinated since the 16th century.</p> <p>We are piddling Irish nation of just under 5million.</p> <p>In terms of getting it right we have a long way to go.</p> <p>Badger why are you honing in on the young working class people by the way. &nbsp;Are you trying to say that middle class youngsters are any better, are they not brought up with a culture of the exact opposide, WALK all over anybody and everybody to accrue assets such as money and status?</p> <p>That is how I see it and I think I am nearer reality than a lot of people cos I see both sides.</p> <p>x</p>

tcmmcm  Posted: 30/04/2009 20:56

<p>An excellent article, and I agree with it but how do you change&nbsp;a system&nbsp;without putting in place a worse one. Change would be an oppertunity for the greedy to line their pockets by privitising the more lucritive aspects of health care. I think, and shout at me if you wish, that there is no place for private health care. It should all be main stream and funded by the tax system so that no one is stressed by medical bills. Private health undermines the health service&nbsp;If we were all in the same boat more effort would be put into making our current health service work. What about cosmetic work, what about it, get a life.</p>

Anonymous  Posted: 01/05/2009 08:54

<p>Badger what makes yoiu think a house is a reward? Housing is a human right. It is a bit late trying to penalise people after the even rather than preventing the event inthe first place. Given that there are over 500 thousand people unemployed becuase there is NO work, what do you intend that people work at after 12 months unemployment?Incidentally it s assessed after 15 months anyway so that suggestion may be redundant. I agree as far as providing condoms but this does not go far enough at all. Broken, how do you stop kids (or anyone) havig babies. Two words:Education - make sex education and life skills compulsary, Hey even make it an exam subject that you cannot leave school without passing. Second word:contraception - make it freey accessible and easily available but you have to change the attitude as well - the midset that says those with the cop on to take precautions are "easy", the embarrassment over using condoms nd the shamefaced attitude of youg women (gilrs) seeking the pill where they feel they have to keep it a secret - so maybe parents need to take their blinkers off too. I don't think Badger is honing in the working classes - rather the opposite the non-working classes.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 01/05/2009 15:39

<p>Badger</p> <p>Re: Your post to Broken 30/04/2009 #79 I believe&nbsp;to be flawed:-</p> <p>I looked up The Central Statistics Office <a href=""></a>&nbsp;went into the&nbsp;Lone Parents Site their current statistics are for 2006. readers here check it out if you so wish. <span style="color: #0000ff;">It&nbsp;states that 2% of all Lone Parents are aged under 20 years old. It also states, A Lone Parent is someone raising children on their own, whether they are a single parent, seperated, divorced or widowed. The&nbsp;2006 Census records shows&nbsp;19,452 Lone Parent Families&nbsp;who live in&nbsp;Multi - Family Households (ie they do not have their own accommodation) - Many of these are Lone Parents who live with their own parents or siblings.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="color: #00ffff;"><span style="color: #800000;"><span style="color: #000080;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">As Broken said:- (We are not like america which germinated </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">since the 1</span></span><span style="color: #000080;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">6th</span> </span></span><span style="color: #ff0000;">century)</span></span> which indeed she is quite right. Would you have it like times since the old ways, the likes of the&nbsp;Magdelene Sisters&nbsp;and orphanages.</p> <p>As in your post to myself on 24th April you did indeed agree that other workers are needed for the likes of different things to keep wheels in motion. What I tried to get you to address was about your wording of <strong><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Breeding</span> </span></strong>uneducated children, which I still believe is abhorrent. You said it more informingly to Broken and I believe to put at the end of your posting <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong>I am merely advocating a passive and sensible re-engineering of society to improve it.</strong>&nbsp; <span style="color: #000000;">How could this improve things. Also condoms are not the answer, if anyone goes into search engine and types in contraception in Ireland you will see that all forms of contraception including the pill are not absolutely 100% accurate to elimate pregnancies.</span></span></p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #000000;">Chrissie&nbsp;</span></span><span style="color: #000000;">&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="color: #000000;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></p>

Chrissie  Posted: 01/05/2009 16:47

<p>Badger</p> <p>When you replied to my post on 24/04/2009 71# you said in your Doctor way:-</p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;">So many times the emergency rooms are brought to a halt by gangs of belligerents who are spending their welfare on beer, cocaine and ecstacy and the latest Nike trainers. Then our government decides to prioritise the emergency department funding to the detriment of outpatient care and elective admissions. It's just a political line-drawing exercise. Most patients who come to the emergency department could be managed in an outpatient setting and this would present them getting to the stage where they are rolling up to the emergency department in crisis.</span></p> <p><span style="color: #0000ff;">I have worked in emergency departments across the country but perhaps the lay bloggers know better than I do. After all, what's a medical degree and several years of medical experience next to Google?).</span></p> <p>Would you let us know how the likes of those on alcohol take up space, are they admitted for liver dysfunction or those on illegal drugs if their condition is bad they be sent off to another hospital if it's effecting their brain. As regards these patients to go to an outpatients setting there are not enough centres to get these persons off illegal drugs and put them on methadone treatment plans&nbsp;to wean them off these illegal drugs.</p> <p>In other cases persons go concerned for their health, especially when we have no G.Ps open in late hours. Saying what was said in times of our recession is not reason for our government to take more cutbacks, illegal drug using hase been going on for years, and yet our health system did not widen resources to help these persons of whom a lot of many have died.</p> <p>Late in giving my view due to medical matters, at end of post you talk of Google.&nbsp;The Medical Council advise&nbsp;all doctors&nbsp;to&nbsp;search on the web to enhance their learning about new techniques.</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

buzz  Posted: 01/05/2009 17:08

<p>For some, it doesnt matter diddly squat HOW many methadone clinics we have. I have seen them in the city centre and (even though they are supposed to take the meth in front of the pharmacist) there are obviously some pahrmacists not doing their job right because you can quite plainly see these guys walking around with their little cups of green liquid. What do they do with it? Sell it. Otherwise why carry it around with you??</p>

Broken  Posted: 01/05/2009 17:50

<p>A few comments here: &nbsp;Private health CARE does NOT work. I met a man who was left paralysed after private hospital care, and I was let out of private hospital with an infected wound which burst.</p> <p>I am all for ONLY public health care and agree with a person here saying that having a two tier system is watering OUT public care and is too expensive, best to have one good one than two bad ones.</p> <p>Also referring to another message that Badger was not homning in on working class people but middle class people when he was talking about condoms etc? &nbsp;I beg to say I dont get that picture at all, he definitely is homing in on the less fortunate.</p> <p>Middle class teens and young adults ARE getting the education I would like to see the less well off, get. &nbsp;There is so &nbsp;many things to get trough to get THAT, and young middle class teens and young adults drink to excess, arrive home without knowing how they have, biff and box each other over a trifle outside the posh night clubs, also smoke dope and other substances. &nbsp;But all this is blanketed out as 'normal' but it isnt normal for a working class lad to get drunk.</p> <p>There should not even be mentioned the class divide it indicates that Ireland is being viewed as a divided society and not according to advantage and disadvantaged. &nbsp;We do NOT have a caste system here - or do we, I will have to think on that, I am inclined to think well, we do</p>

buzz  Posted: 05/05/2009 11:34

<p>Whatever about the state of the private sector, the public is far worse. Why would you condem people to the public service&nbsp; by taking away their RIGHT to pay for a better health service of they wish to. Until the public health service is flawless (and I dont think that will ever happen) then nobody can take away someones right to pay for a better system if they so wish. Would you force everyone to survive on bread and water, even those willing and able to pay for more, because there are some who cannot afford better?</p>

buzz  Posted: 05/05/2009 11:36

<p>and young middle class teens and young adults drink to excess, arrive home without knowing how they have, biff and box each other over a trifle outside the posh night clubs, also smoke dope and other substances. &nbsp;But all this is blanketed out as 'normal' but it isnt normal for a working class lad to get drunk.</p> <p>I disagree, the OPPOSITE is far more likely - all you need to do is look at the luas red line!</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 05/05/2009 17:25

<p>Looking for equality of treatment regarding health is not a give for free, it's to protect others in our population to protect their health. e.g. giving young babies immunization so that those who are not quite the right months old do not catch diseases e.g. mumps/rubella/measles.</p> <p>As in private patients verses public patients, lets just wait and see as we go further down the depression line, and more and more jobs are lost how will it fare out? A lot of middle class familes and single persons pay at source their private insurance.</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

Broken  Posted: 05/05/2009 19:58

<p>Buzz, How can the public health service be any better when MOST of the money and most of the ideas are heading toward PRIVATE health care. NO one took my right to pay insurance, I HAVE insurance cos the public is so bad.</p> <p>Tell me this, why when I arrive at A&amp;E in a private hospital that my head is MRI'd when I go in with a gut blockage?</p> <p>Why am I sent the social worker, the dietitian, the OT, the Physio all for assessment and never in a month of sundays would that happen in the public service.</p> <p>Even after 10 diagnosed with crohns through the PRIVATE service I never got to see a dietitian until this time in hospital.</p> <p>We do NOT have a public service. I cannot afford to be paying for every little thing in health.</p> <p>I havent worked for thirty years, I now drive an adapted van and use a scooter.</p> <p>I wish people here are more realistic.</p> <p>the divide in public/private health DOES NOT work for either sectors.</p> <p>I would go the scandinavian way rather than the american way.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

badger5079  Posted: 06/05/2009 00:49

<p>Chrissie, you said (in your lay person way):</p> <p>"Would you let us know how the likes of those on alcohol take up space, are they admitted for liver dysfunction or those on illegal drugs if their condition is bad they be sent off to another hospital if it's effecting their brain."</p> <p>My response:</p> <p>People who present to the emergency department due to drink and drug-related issues should be heavily fined. If you have been in the emergency department a few times, you will know the type of which I speak. They vomit on the floor and abuse the nurses and shout and scare other patients and tie up security staff while waiting for the effects of the drink/drugs to wear off. Meanwhile other patients cower in fear and disgust and pain and have a delay in being attended to because of these weak addicts. They should pay a heavy price for their stupidity and selfishness.</p> <p>As regards methadone treatment, I think it is a costly exercise which does not cure the addict - it merely makes them dependent on a state-provided drug instead of a street-provided one. I think that over 400 million Euros was spent last year on addiction services.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

badger5079  Posted: 06/05/2009 00:58

<p>Broken, you said:</p> <p>"Crumbsy crumbs Badger, you are not living in the real world..."</p> <p>Typical anti-doctor propaganda. I am living in the real world. I work hard for my living. I qualified as a doctor mainly due to my own determination and work ethic. Th real world I live in is one where I am expected to give up 40% of my income this year between training and allowances so that "Nik-al-ah" and "Anto" can have teen pregnancies and take drugs and expect to be housed and fed out of my pocket as a right instead of learning to earn a wage. These people are the ones who are not living in the real world if you ask me.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Anonymous  Posted: 06/05/2009 11:43

<p>Yes Chrissie, no contraceptive is 100% foolproof - except sterilisation, which of course is not suitable unless you have completed your family but at least using ANY form of contraceptive - pill or condom is better than the ignorance of using nothing at all and having a child you did not intend and cannot look after.</p>

JamesH  Posted: 06/05/2009 12:02

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="mso-ansi-language: EN-IE;" lang="EN-IE"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Buzz,</span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="mso-ansi-language: EN-IE;" lang="EN-IE"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">I would have to disagree strongly with your opinion that private health is the best. There are many situations where the public health system is far superior and in fact can only be provided properly by the public system. Examples would include the cancer screening programme. BreastCheck is a public service and is acknowledged to be up there with the best in the world. Don&rsquo;t forget Barringtons was a private hospital providing poor standard of care for Breast Cancer. The concept of the cancer strategy really can only be driven and delivered to the population at large through the public system. The private system targets one-off issues such as you hip replacement or heart by-pass. If anything seriously goes wrong it is often the situation that the private hospital patient is transferred to the nearest public hospital. Similarly with maternity care. Sure the private hospital may have lovely facilities, but should your baby be in any way be seriously ill, the baby will be transferred to Holles St.</span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: " lang="EN-IE">True there are many inefficient practices in public hospitals and some exorbitant pay structures leading to certain sections being paid far too much (and I am not talking about consultants here). These should be addressed (if either the unions or the HSE had the guts to tackle it). However to throw out the baby with the bath water would be a backward step. Look at most European countries with very well run public systems. Look at the US with very well run private system. Which country would you prefer to be treated in if you couldn&rsquo;t afford insurance? </span></p>

buzz  Posted: 06/05/2009 13:08

<p>Hi James yes you do have some good points there but I still think I will take my chances with private for now. Of course in an ideal world we would all have access to comprehensive and efficent public healthcare, failing that I will stay where I am for now. What really made my mind up for me was seeing a family friend, diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, being left to wait all day for a bed in the treatment unit, and when that ward clsoed for the night, being told to go and wait in A+E. Three weeks later still no treatment!</p>

buzz  Posted: 06/05/2009 13:37

<p>Broken please don't have a go at me. It sounds like you have gone through a lot but I am entitled to express my opinion, one which I think you may have misinterpreted anyway if your post is anything to go by!</p>

Anonymous  Posted: 06/05/2009 14:09

<p>I think that anyone who abuses medical staff should be fined - and indeed so should any medical staff who abuse patients. However, what gives you badger the right to fine people and label them because of an ILLNESS. Yes, addiction IS an illness and I would expect someone with a medical background to know this. I notice a distinct lack of mention of actual treatment of addicts - shame on you. That you work extremely hard and qualified thru your own determination I have not doubt, but this gives no-one the right to label others. Why are you so busy condescending to those who have teen pregnancies-why don't you spend the time constructively in educating those people? Jmes makes a good point re patient care., If somethinh goes wroing under the private hospital in the NTPF, the patient is transferred back to the public system Simlarly with maternity care. An all private hospital may have excellent facilites and brilliant obs / patient ratio. But if something serious goes wrong with the birth - in the Lleinster area, I know for a fact that mother (and baby if neccessary) are both transferred to the Rotunda.</p>

Broken  Posted: 06/05/2009 15:49

<p>A few things here to address, soory Buzz of course you have right for your say, I apologise if you feel I think you do not. &nbsp;I also agree that the drunks and addicts are ending up in A&amp;E.</p> <p>I have a friend pharmacist that works with adults on methadone, it DOES not help people get off drugs, it delays the process to get their head around giving up drugs and is actually just as bad as heroin is, by way of dependency</p> <p>The drunks and addicts should NOT be ending up inf the A&amp;E, neither are emergencies in the sense of physical emergencies.</p> <p>Any drug and drink related emergencies should be dealt with in a speciality unit with hours open at night.</p> <p>We do not have a special unit for these people in even the most deprived areas of dublin.</p> <p>I agree, for I have been in A&amp;E when the drunk are in and it isnt pretty at all.</p> <p>Badger, you are going on about working hard at your training and job. &nbsp;Well thats what working is all about.</p> <p>When I went back to college I cleaned offices until 10pm every night and still up for 8am for college until 5pm.</p> <p>Every summer I went to clean hotels.&nbsp;</p> <p>And when I got a job i worked - hard. &nbsp;In my field if you were no good you didnt get a job, being in the Arts. and Design field. &nbsp;I could work 30hrs on a brief and it could be snuff out and I'd walk away, no money, no commission hence 30hrs four nought.</p> <p>No one has given me charity, hands outs, nothing.</p> <p>I worked very hard indeed and it was the only way if you were to make it in the art world.</p> <p>When you decide on a career you take the resultant consequences. &nbsp;Mine was let downs and disappoints and I worked too long into the night to meet a deadline, AND you only get paid the agreed sum not over time.</p> <p>Doctors should work, yes, you probably did work very hard to get where you did, yes you are probably very intelligent etc.</p> <p>But you are indignant too, and feel a bit hard done by and have grievences, that others have not done the same.</p> <p>Most, do the same. &nbsp;Most want to work, achieve, attain. &nbsp;Human nature has it so, in order for the survival of the fittest.</p> <p>You couldnt run fast enough you were crushed by the hairy mammoth!</p> <p>xx</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 06/05/2009 16:05

<p>Anonymous Re: your post 06/05/2009&nbsp;#93 you said:-</p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Yes Chrissie, no contraception is 100% fool-proof except sterilization, which of course is not suitable&nbsp;unless you have completed your family but at least using ANY form of contraception - pill condom is better than the ignorance of using nothing at all and having a child you did not intend and cannot look after.</span></p> <p>Having read above, I was talking about elimating a pregnancy which you'll find if you schroll down to what I wrote. Sexually active persons see leaflets in chemists, doctor surgeries, it's advertised on our TV the importance of using&nbsp;condoms whether they are using any other sort of contraceptive mainly the Pill.</p> <p>I have told my children, each of them to always&nbsp;remember that any teenager/adult who sleeps with someone without unprotected sex are at risk to getting HIV.&nbsp;To put it more bluntly they would be sleeping not only with that partner, but all their previous partners as well who may harbour&nbsp;this HIV, and all sexually transmitted diseases. (I told them at right age besides their school educating them about puberty/STDs/HIV)</p> <p>As for sterilization if they are finished their family why don't men go for this method, and not women? It's an easier operation procedure on men and a quicker recovery rate.</p> <p>Anoymous how do you conlude that a child would not be able to be looked after? What would they do with the Baby? Many a baby was not planned but looked after and wanted by a loving happy family, and that's what rearing a baby&nbsp;is all about.</p> <p>Chrissie&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 06/05/2009 17:51

<p>badger5079 Re: your post to myself&nbsp;06/05/2009 #91</p> <p>You mention weak addicts - drug users - methadone treatment. You put across here why give it to them, when they can get it on the street. Now you're talking about illegal drugs the likes of hereon, estacy.</p> <p>Unfortunately drug users/alcohol users come from all walks of life, that is the reality and it's happening all around our western world. I have been indeed in A&amp;E many times and never witnessed them tie up staff. Indeed most of our hospitals have in A&amp;E a lot of security personell, as&nbsp;many other countries do too. I witnessed it in Colorado U.S.A. in 2003&nbsp;that they have security personell when I was brought to A&amp;E there. I didn't witness any patients attack staff and was there for 5 hours.</p> <p>There should be more help out there for those who are trying to get off street drugs, then pass them onto methadone treatment. There are organizations out there who try to turn&nbsp;their lives around. Why? Because these persons want a good productive life, that they are no longer&nbsp;dependent on methadone.</p> <p>Our Department of Justice seizes many illegal drugs coming into our Country. They are trying to wipe out street drugs. Perhaps the money they seize from these drug dealers could be spent on trying to cure this addiction, which is an illness. I know from others who are heart broken that their offspring use illegal drugs and methadone treatment they are tortured to see them like this. I know of persons who got loans to send them to private centres to be weaned off illegal drugs. A lot&nbsp; have been cured, got on methadone treatment, got to privately run centres where they the users live and&nbsp;are monitored on a day to day situation.&nbsp;</p> <p>These young teenagers are first given illegal drugs free to put them on the road to addiction - which as I have said is an illness in itself, as is the likes of alcoholics. You being a Doctor are very judgemental. Your oath was to look after all regardless of their creed etc., you know the Sworn Oath.</p> <p>You're also targetting teenage pregnancies Why? if you go into the <a href=""></a> you will find that only 2% of those under 20 had babies this is c.s.o. figures is&nbsp;for&nbsp;2006. I have checked this Site again to see is it updated to 2008. Not yet, it states they are in process of updating many different items there.</p> <p>You're&nbsp;also not the only one paying taxes at source by income levies raised, it's happened to all those working in our Ireland. By the way until my Husband fell he paid tax on my invalidity book why? because that's the law. Am not against laws, but we're all in this recession together, everyone is effected by it even those on the dole. Those between 18 and just under 20 whether they lost their jobs or not, their payment was cut in half from 1st May 2009. This half payment now stands at 102.15 Euros. (as in your words on another post here - they drink their social welfare money)</p> <p>Chrissie&nbsp;</p>

Anonymous  Posted: 07/05/2009 09:41

<p>Any drug and drink related emergencies should be dealt with in a speciality unit with hours open at night. I agree completely Broken.</p> <p>Chrissie, it sounds as tho you have your family well educated but this is not the case for allparents, despite ads on TV and schools from what I can see provide next to no sex education and it certainly doesn't seem to be compulsary from what I can see - tho of coiurse schools in your area moight well be better. Yes, of course vasectomy is an easier op than tubal ligation if a man is finished his family. In the circumstnaces that badger was talking about he was referring to young and uneducated teens having children (much of which is unplanned) whom they could not provide for and I was referring to that. Love and desire for a child are very important but it takes moe than that to provide for a child.</p>

Sick of it all  Posted: 07/05/2009 10:12

<p>It is astounding the level of anger that is carried in all the messages posted here. The bad experiences the, neglect incompetence etc. However what amazes me more is that we all put up with this. In any other country there would be protests on the streets, people would line up outside ministers local offices but not in Ireland.</p> <p>Unfortunately we get what we deserve and Harney and Drumm is what we deserve because it is what we accept. We are looked down on by these people who treat us with contempt while taking the spoils of office.</p> <p>For so long I have put postings on this website but still I see the same thing&nbsp; week after week. I have taken to writing to my local politician on every issue I believe strongly in and have let him know what I feel and that I will no support&nbsp; him if he he does not support the people. You may have heard of John Mc Guinness recently probably the first politician. minister to have the balls to go against the grain. It is more of this that we should be demanding.. NOW</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 08/05/2009 17:06

<p>I believe that the majority of persons living here are sick of it all too. I believe that if we had a General Election FF would be gone with the wind. But we're not due another General Election until 2012. We also heard on our media all about these 7 Junior Ministers being sacked. But these 7, and McGuinness being one of them never lost their backbencher seats as TDs.</p> <p>Their salary was 154,000 Euros for J.M's, that's without all their add on expenses. These 7 are still TDs. dropped salary to 100,000 but still have their add on expenses for being TDs. Also learned that John McGuinness is pledged to give his 51,500 Euros severance pay for his sacked staff who are his two support staff and his two drivers. Thousands of persons who joined do not like the way Brendan Drumm and Mary Harney do or not do things for our hospital system.</p> <p>Perhaps we should look at a Site here [FGs Predges to reform medical system] posted 27/04/2009. There's a downloadable <a href=""></a> I'm not saying what they propose be right or be wrong but it's worth looking at. Their proposals will move towards the Dutch System, Dr. James Reilly supports this.</p> <p>I'm not for any particular party right now, but as far as I know they are the only ones coming forward with a new suggestion on how to change our health system here, but I've read it will take time. Through imput from professionals and us I think would be some way forward than to stay as we are in a sort of static situation where everyone is affected by what has been done to us all right across the board. As in James told me FF are now in government over 3 recurring elections.</p> <p>I'm reading this Faircare Book to try and understand what their proposals are, and we acquire knowledge of how this system may or may not work. So sadly we have no Platform to come together in droves and march peacefully on our government buildings because we have no way to band together to do just that, and the powers that be know this.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Broken  Posted: 11/05/2009 20:53

<p>'Your service your say'-this i found on the HSE website! Well, I had my say! They give you an email address, but this is a sort of reverse psychology, it's a 'venting' in a belief that they care and will listen. I am sure that the amount of 'your say' they get in they are so swamped they never get round to 'our service our say - to you' sort of thing.</p> <p>I read a lot of the site, mother about PR? I wonder who they bought in to work on that site and all the beautiful couched words and promises.</p> <p>Some of the site hasn't been updated since '07, but it sure made interesting reading, rather pathetic and laughable given our dire crisis in health at present.</p> <p>I was astounded, can Irish people really be taken in by this drivvel?</p> <p>I had MY SAY!!!!!</p>

Broken  Posted: 12/05/2009 18:19

<p>I am arriving at Dail Eireann tomorrow with my scooter and placard to protest about conditions for disabled persons as seen in to days Irish Times.</p> <p>Also I did a sit in - a knee jerk reaction because they are stalling in providing me with appropiate rehousing needs, they can give me a one bed unit with a shed out the back for my disability equipment.</p> <p>I had a beautiful home and they expect me to live in a box with a shed.</p> <p>Just because they sold all their land for private apartments.</p> <p>I feel yes, I will say it, on the verge of a nervous breakdown, but wait for it, they DONT take people in the the hospitals if you are breaking down, only if you are a danger to self or others.</p> <p>I might end in the harbour, it would be my best option. I cannot take any more of this.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 13/05/2009 04:26

<p>Dear Broken</p> <p>I write to you and empathise with you as I read your story on another site here. We are thinking of you - and care deeply for you as a lot of us went through terrible trauma with our health. This is all about our understanding and caring here for you, as you care for us here.</p> <p>I read in The Irish Times on the net what you mean about Disability Bill. Found in Irish Times a site <a href=""></a> you can email them at <a href=""></a> these are the people who put forward this Disabiliaty Bill in 2007. Their phone no is Dublin 01-8147400.</p> <p>Also I found National Irish wheelchair association - As you use scooter and adapted car. From what I read on their Site they advise persons who use adapted cars of their rights. Their Site is <a href=""></a> their email address is <a href=""></a> and their phone no is Dublin 01-8186400. Maybe they can help you with your housing needs adaptable to your medical situation. I<br />hope I say nothing that is offensive, I care so much for those with long lasting illness, that it is so unfair. I give above that in perhaps one of the two sites I mention may talk about representing you, and you don't go it alone seeking your rights.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

buzz  Posted: 13/05/2009 09:28

<p>Saw on the news last night, Ireland's largest childrens hospital is closing down wards and state of the art theatres as well as laying off staff. WHAT NEXT?</p> <p>Why does the government keep targeting the vulnerable? The pensioner's medical cards, the lower and medium wage bracket workers, our childrens special needs facilities at primary and secondary levele, fees at third level, childcare cuts, welfare cuts, now SICK CHILDREN! They should be kicked out for gross imcompetency!</p>

buzz  Posted: 13/05/2009 13:39

<p>Hi broken how can they expect you to live like that? A shed out back for your equipment? surely you need your equipment on hand in the same place should you need to access it? This stupid country gets worse every day!</p>

Broken  Posted: 13/05/2009 17:46

<p>Report on my one man (and scooter) protest at Dail Eireann today.</p> <p>I saw Brendan Drumm come out. I scooted after him and put out my hand to introduce myself.</p> <p>I told him I have been trying to get in touch with his office for so many years, he answered "I havent been there for that long" I answered, "don't be so smart" Then I told him that did he hear that the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis said&nbsp; he earned more than Mr. Obama, so what was he doing with our health service?" Smile went, "I dont have to take this and he shot off, just shot off up Kildare street.</p> <p>Brian Lenihans brother, sorry dont know him, he was posing for photos by an newspaper guy, I tried to get him to talk to me when finally I said "do you prefer having your picture taken to talking to me?" he told me he preferred having his picture taken!!!!<br />He then said as he walked away, "send me a note" to which I shouted "how many notes do you get every day!</p> <p>Next experience. In rides Ciaran Cuffe, I shouted to him "you will have to do more than ride your bike Ciaran!" He is in my constituency area. He told me he would talk to me later, like hell he would.<br />Next, I have a relation in the Dail who came in and asked me to come in for coffee, here we go, this is the best bit of all. I on a mobility scooter, I nearly knocked or desecrated the entrance to Dail Eireann cos the disability ramp was impeded by a sign.<br />I tried three different ramps and entrances and I still couldn't get in and all the bystanders Inside the sacred place were looking on at the embarrasing situation.<br />It was the most humiliating day I have ever had but dont regret it except the press photographer kept taking pictures and he was getting on my nerves. I put on my hat, boy I wish I hadnt cos the photographer liked it and he must have more pics.<br />I saw Ruari Quinn coming out. I actually think he is quite decent, but he saw me. He made for one exit and I backed to meet him, he saw this and made for another, and I scootered forward to get him there, and back and forward we went until he had to exit either one and knew he'd never get away. He was puce in the face.</p> <p>That was very funny indeed.</p> <p>x</p>

Broken  Posted: 14/05/2009 20:37

<p>I received a note to say that the above comments from my stance at Dail Eireann had been rejected for publication.</p> <p>but I find it hear. &nbsp;Thinking that maybe the editor thought it was a bit OTT, I was just going to say that I did the protest, it wasnt easy but I learnt a lot and it made me a wee bit stronger.</p> <p>I know in many instances, the above is not ideal at all, in any circumstances. &nbsp;For me, it was appropiate but not liked. &nbsp;It was a great deal demeaning and humiliating and it was the first time I did it.</p> <p>Not to mention that my uncaring family are absolutely livid with me and are not speaking to me now.</p> <p>They never did in the first place.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 19/05/2009 16:39

<p>Hi Broken - admire your strength for what you did. Do you have the option to appeal this under housing needs for your disability? because what they offered you was awful.</p> <p>Will you please keep us all posted</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

Broken  Posted: 19/05/2009 20:34

<p>Update: they refuse to offer me anything other than the one bed unit with shed out back as of yesterday.</p> <p>Now I am back having private physiotherapy two lots and over Euros 100. Medical card means nothing.</p> <p>Went to gastro (yeh, private too) told him I had lost the plot and dont know where I a with the meds at all, lost my new hearing aids within three days of getting and hardly eating and really dont know what I am doing.</p> <p>"Anyone helping you" well now can any of ye answer that one? "No' I tell him.</p> <p>Five years and still no physio, ot, eating implement, no investigations as to why my muscles are wasting but they MIGHT begin to try and find out once I see the shrink they are making me see. All consultants send me to a shrink first!</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

badger5079  Posted: 20/05/2009 05:10

<p>People who want to spend their lives in the grip of drug addiction should be allowed to dose up in government sponsored heroin spas. Let the government spend a certain amount of GDP on importing and purifying heroin from a wholesaler in the cheapest possible manner. Then let the addicts dose up on it. The market for street heroin will collapse. The level of crime on the streets in Dublin will collapse. The addicts will be off the streets and safely under control. Let everyone see that choosing to become addicted to drugs is choosing to be a slave or an animal with little autonomy.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 22/05/2009 15:12

<p>Broken thanks for your post - hope it will&nbsp;not be much longer&nbsp;than you have already waited for your inverstigations about your muscles&nbsp;wasting.</p> <p>I read about County Councils in our Counties, they each can&nbsp;have different rules. I just wondered if you contacted the County Manager in Council in&nbsp;your Area that maybe they would look further into your case/situation you are in and what's offered is not suitable to you.</p> <p>I say all this because the County I live in have four County Councils, they each have different rules. One of them has a rule that a person can turn down 2 dwellings offered but must take the 3rd offer. Another one has&nbsp;rules that&nbsp;there are 2 offers, if 2nd offer not taken then they remove name from waiting list.</p> <p>I say all this to you to look at options available because in places such as these mistakes can be made. I'll give you an example. Yesterday my Husband had to go to the Hospital to see Physio. This hospital texted him on his mobile on Wednesday&nbsp;to remind him his appointment was at 11.30. He just so happened to find his appointment card yesterday morning and written on it was 10am. He rang up this mobile number on&nbsp;text, they then put him onto appointments. Guess what he was told appointment was 10 o'clock, I rang Taxi straight away to get him there.</p> <p>I say all this because they can make blunders, if you've&nbsp;already contacted your County Manager sorry for same. Hope you won't be too long waiting for care with your health.</p> <p>Chrissie&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 22/05/2009 17:28

<p>Badger5079</p> <p>Looking at your post on 20/05/2009 #113</p> <p>You're now talking about legalising PURE HERION. Where would we put all these persons on pure heroin if it were ever come to pass? What do you mean by putting them in Heroin spas?</p> <p>I know of 2 european countries much bigger than our country thatdid indeed legalise illegal drugs. It was done years ago, it's known in hindsight that persons living there were terrified by these legal addicts . Don't know if it was reversed by Law, hope so. at end of your post you say-</p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The addicts will be off the streets and safely under control. Let everyone see that choosing to become addicted to drugs is choosing to be a slave or an animal with little autonomy.</span></p> <p>This word you use "autonomy" means informed consent a word used by medics and politicians. Then with little autonomy be it illegal or legal drugs they become to be not decision makers with little autonomy. There are those out there that don't want what you suggest, want to be off illegal drugs, get help and not be in herion Spas.</p> <p>Also the U.S. being one of our biggest Countries legalised Pure Heroin some years ago to try control addiction in The U.S. The availabiliaty of increasing supplies of cheap and pure herion is creating a growing number of users.</p> <p>I would tend to think that if we were ever to have an election to Legalise Pure Heroin the majority would vote No and not be like you. I would believe that the majority would bin it.</p> <p>Chrissie</p>

Broken  Posted: 22/05/2009 19:30

<p>Badger Badger Badger, Poor Badger! &nbsp;Well, he is a doctor!!!</p> <p>I am in a mega flaire now! &nbsp;Sjoggie and muscles have gone wild.</p> <p>Off to london to see te Lupus guy soon though thank God, and also my consultant here is writing that I go to toms to have the test I had there where it found muscle wasting, chronic muscle myopathy a year ago.</p> <p>Within that year, NO ONE here has even intimated what it all could be or bothered to find out.</p> <p>Why would the doctors leave me in this state?</p> <p>Havent raised head off bed today and the crohns too behaving badly.</p> <p>Update on spoon - the adapted spoon, none in the shop in town, none in Clontarf, so two major centres where people with severe disabilities attend do not have specialised implements for teir clients.</p> <p>Second major centre who teaches disabled persons to drive doesnt even have a 'slider' I could buy for the car steering wheel.</p> <p>Nor would the workshop take back two brand new wheelchair tyres I bought just prior to giving up the thing for a motorised scooter because, "well, it all has to go through the books"</p> <p>in other words, too much paperwork.</p> <p>Money wasted dont have to have a degree in medicine to see THAT!</p> <p>Badger can I go for respite? &nbsp;I have asked, never got an answer.</p>

purple  Posted: 24/05/2009 23:06

<p>hi</p> <p>i would say hospitals arent working bbecause of all the cut backs, i was in temple street the other eveing as my son was injured, there were a few kids waiting for over an hour, a doctor came out, one lad was told he had fractured his two fingers couldnt strap it up he will be ok, another girl had a sprained arm u will be ok, thats not right</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 25/05/2009 17:24

<p>Oh my God purple, young children have more bones than grown ups have. Over years these bones fuse together in parts of the body when they become adults. A fracture in the finger is known to be worse than a broken finger. The girl with the sprained arm needed something to hold her arm elevated. I believe it is the cutbacks too - just like the cutbacks in Our Lady's Children's Hospital.</p> <p>How can they do this to the children? It's getting like the 3rd World now to be treated like this in Ireland.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p><img title="Cry" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-cry.gif" border="0" alt="Cry" /></p>

Broken  Posted: 25/05/2009 20:04

<p>a day at the doc's, of the psychiatric variant.</p> <p>Why the hospitals are not working. &nbsp;A doctor tells you you have brain damage - over five times.</p> <p>I tell him I know that, and did so before I entered his room.</p> <p>I had two tests in London one stating my muscles were dying and one that my cognitives skills were - er, dying too. He asked me did either doc say why, I replied that I had to go to england and have these tests to prove that what I knew was happening my body was happening because today was the third time a consultant had sent me to a psychiatrist to make sure it wasnt 'all in the mind', no, they didnt, they just told me it was happening, I am endeavouring to get my Irish doctors to start on that without sending me to - shrinks.</p> <p>Our hospitals are not working because one doctor asks another to review a person on some strange pretext and then that doctor asks did the other doctors say why such was happening and also ask me did I have any idea of what was happening. &nbsp;So all the doctors ask all and sundry without actually doing the work to find the answers! &nbsp;So I have spent a fortune to confirm what I knew, one doc has cost the mental health services the money which would be better applied to very sick mentally ill persons, AND that consultant got the poor reg to ask all the questions, then come into the room ask a few of the same questions, but basically picks up a pay packet after the reg did all the work.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

SAMMI  Posted: 26/05/2009 18:28

<p>Hi chrissie</p> <p>i've been really really busy so haven't been on for a while. hope things are not too bad with you.</p> <p>broken</p> <p>words fail me, what a disgrace, i've said time and time again, animals get treated better.</p> <p>Badger, badger, badger. No need for me to say more.</p> <p>Does any one else agree, what is wrong with our hospitals /health service? Is it being run bunch a bunch of people highly educated, uncaring ,totally lacking in common sense?</p> <p>If they are all like badger god help us.</p> <p>However given my experience with them and judging by badger's comments .... guess what... yes they are all alike. we are on the Titanic baby.</p>

purple  Posted: 26/05/2009 19:34

<p>hi</p> <p>i blame the cut backs on the hospitals not working.</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 27/05/2009 17:06

<p>Hi Sammi</p> <p>Great to have you back-well on a post I told of my Husband's Physio when he'd go to hospital be given instructions of physio to do at home. Last time he went told the Physio he thinks he's gone as far as he can just doing physio at home and he can barely bend his knee. He was told they would try and get him physio within the hospital.</p> <p>Well he got a mobile text from them and at long last he is being treated for physio in the Hospital. Yesterday he was there and got treadmill treatment, also got help trying to move up and down steps. They are going to see him every 3 weeks now.</p> <p>Broken like Sammi I really don't know how to put words as to why they (The Hospital) don't pass you on to an appropiate Consultant to check you, given that you have 2 reports from London about your condition. I know with my condition my Neuro Consultant gave me an inter-transferral which is supposed to be a quicker uptake to be seen. In my case I was in the right place to save my life, but in the wrong catchment area to get Physio. He organised that I had a physiotherapist from our local health clinic call to my home every day until I got physio in my own catchment area which took 2 years to happen. But I would like to point out here, it was not within the remit of my Neuro to do this himself. He went miles to help me, wish there were more like him.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>I do hope that this election will turn things around. We need MEPs that will act for us especially on (health issues) to represent us in Brussels</p>

Broken  Posted: 27/05/2009 21:34

<p>I seem to have no one on my side! I have received no physio on my med card ever and begged for it five years ago for the muscle wasting.</p> <p>Trying to track an adapted spoon has been laughable, the rehab didnt get me to see a range, nor even one, all of the places I tried didnt have them and I said to my sis, surely to god people with disabilities in this country get to have an eating implement!</p> <p>No physio, no OT, no social worker, no counselling, battle with rehousing, referred back to community for all the above when the above said they hadnt got it.</p> <p>Nothing, absolutely nothing.</p> <p>London next week for the same muscle test and to see the lupus specialist. I dont trust Ireland anymore. I will pray the VHI will pay, I really dont trust any doctor in Ireland now, after the way they treated me, either private or public, they were all the same.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 27/05/2009 23:22

<p>Badger5079</p> <p>Mr Michael O'Keeffe stated in this Article that &euro;120 million was funded through the National Treatment Purchase Fund NTPF whiich I believe to be true.</p> <p>Badger now I happened to see on your post 06/05/2009 #91 you wrote on last sentence. <span style="color: #0000ff;">"I think that over &euro;400 million was spent last year on addiction </span><span style="color: #0000ff;">Services".</span> Could you let us know where you get these figures from?</p> <p>I would wish you to know that I as an inpatient/outpatient going through all my Hospitals Files which took me months to do as a lay person noted Doctors kept repeatedly enquiring on each admission, in outpatients, and in A&amp;E what my condition was i.e. all operations I had, procedures, medications, any allergic reactions. The point I'm trying to make here they kept my condition at the forefront of my Files to avoid mistakes happening.</p> <p>My mistakes did not involve Neuro, but my other issues did, and this is where I found that they did not enter my up to date records as they should have by writing to my prime carer who as you know is my GP.</p> <p>To all readers I just like others did complain to Hospitals, complained to The Medical Council, but there is no accountabiliaty unless it's under The Fitness to Practice.</p> <p>To Purple you're right about all the cutbacks. I believe it's been going on for years, it's nothing to do with our World Wide Recession.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p>Let's all hope that some day our Hospitals will revert back to working properly</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 02/07/2009 18:21

<p>Updating&nbsp;on my Daughter's condition and my Husband's condition. In previous posts #66 + #15 I told of my Daughter needing operation for removal of sweat glands under her arm. She was taken into Hospital last week one day before op for pain management. It turned out that when Registrar came to her bed he spoke about bringing her down next day to do op. Anyway if he ordered pain meds she never received them, she&nbsp;only got 2 paracetamol on two occasions. Was&nbsp;also given 2 injections into her Tummy to prevent&nbsp;blood clotting after her op.</p> <p>Next day when they (which was a Nurse approached her and told her she could go home) She got no written information about the care of her wound and asked this Nurse when was she to come back and have stitches removed?</p> <p>This Nurse went off to find out and came back to tell her you won't need stitches out, they are dissolving stitches and you will receive letter in post to see the Doctor here in outpatients for check up. She got Letter to see them in September. A few days ago she went to our GP because she had&nbsp;swelling redness and blisters right around outer stitches.&nbsp;She was told she was allergic to this plaster and not use these ones again. To put sudocream on the swelling. Now today she rang the Ward spoke to one of the Team and told them of pain she's in, plus there is yellow oozing leaking from where stitches are. It was said to her after getting her name, date of birth etc., do you want us to see you earlier? She replied yes was told we'll try to see you sometime next week.</p> <p>Am going to go with her tomorrow into Ward or A&amp;E to get this looked into. As regards Husband same day he was in A&amp;E in same Hospital while she was inpatient our Doctor sent him there thinking he had a blood clot in his good leg naming it could be DVP. He was there in A&amp;E from 4pm to 2 am they found clot in&nbsp;his leg gave him a blockbuster clotting injection, got his leg scanned-told they could not see veins properly due to fluid build up in his leg. He's to attend A&amp;E for another leg scan tomorrow, going in with him as well to find out what's going on. We all wonder "Why our Hospitals simply aren't working" it seems now that all&nbsp;the medics have no time to talk and tell anything to the Patient yet alone their nearest relative.</p> <p>It's looking like and is like they only take take of Patients when they are near deaths door. Mary Harney&nbsp;Brendan Drumm our Government do not care who is treated in any which way they are treated.</p> <p>All the articles they put forward are not worth the paper they are written on. 9 years ago she got written instructions as to how to look after her wound when she had her sweat glands removed on the other arm in the same hospital. Hospital Charter rights yeah - why don't they stop producing these and save money for Hospitals. As regards making complaints to the HSE not worth the time and energy to complain - a waste of time and resourses to keep these who supposedly look into hospital complaints.</p> <p>I am right now fuming at the way in which they treat patients/customers. We are a 3rd World now that's all I know.</p> <p>Chrissie&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>

Chrissie  Posted: 08/07/2009 19:23

<p>To add to my last posting 2nd July that evening I rang up the Ward to see could I talk to a Doctor on duty. No Doc there but Nurse was very helpful&nbsp;when I told my Daughter's condition. She'd&nbsp;worsened that evening and the yellowish liquid oozing was now running out&nbsp;from&nbsp;her arm pit&nbsp;just&nbsp;like&nbsp;running tap water. It was rolling down her arm and she was so pale.&nbsp;She asked who did her and I said Name, she then told me that this Team had changed over-there was a new Team looking after the type of surgery my Daughter had.</p> <p>I asked her was there an (SHO) Senior House Officer on duty? She told me they had one, but he was not there. She kindly told me to get my Daughter to ring main hospital and gave me name and bleep number of this Doc, and ring him @ 8.30-9pm and tell her condition. She advised we don't bring her to A&amp;E that evening because the only one who could look after her now was the (SHO) because she was just recently discharged some days ago. She also asked me why didn't our Daughter go to her GP that afternoon? I explained that when she spoke to someone on the Team that afternoon&nbsp;he was fitting her in some time next week in outpatients and did not advise her to go to her GP. She told me not to wait until then and ring this (SHO) We all got to A&amp;E at 9 am next day. The (SHO) told my Daughter he would be down as soon as he could, that he was in operating theatre.</p> <p>Both Husband and Daughter checked in with Triage Nurse. His time came&nbsp;after waiting 2 hours he was brought down for another scan on his good leg/or leg that had blood clot in it. Eventually got results, he was told that no more clots were found. The other clot they found was not in the main arteries of his leg. His leg&nbsp;and foot was still swelled and as hard as a rock. Told by A&amp;E Doc to rest his leg and elevate it for swelling to go down. He told this Doc that he had Physio next week what will he do? Was told to go down to see Physio and&nbsp;ask them and they'll look after that.</p> <p>They went ahead and gave him physio anyway it was decided by head physio. Now our GP is telling him I'm surprised you're still here, getting out local clinic Nurse to see him in our Home, also&nbsp;physiotherapist to come here. He was told by our District Nurse&nbsp;that&nbsp;he wear these socks for allievating more clots-you are now&nbsp;prone to getting clots in your leg. He is on 2 different blood pressure meds, and taking an aspirin to thin his blood.</p> <p>From 9am our Daughter waitied to see Doc. He came into A&amp;E at 1pm had a look at her leakage and ordered blood tests, also an intra-venous drip with 2 different antibiotics going into her system. He came back at 7pm that evening and checked her, found her blood levels to be high with white blood cells and asked the Registrar to admit her. He also told her to fast from midnight in case they may have to bring her back down to Theatre. She was sitting on a chair, more towards morning onto a trolley, then about 9-10am&nbsp; admitted onto ward. Same (SHO) came to see her and told her there was a pocket inside her armpit where the puss was collecting and he asked could he drain it?</p> <p>He explained the way&nbsp;he had to do same he squeezed all this puss out, then washed it out with saline solution using a syringe to draw it out. Then he put a type of dressing named wick in wound&nbsp;(this is a type of string with absorbent cotton&nbsp;to collect infection. He told her he was so sorry this all happened.</p> <p>She was discharged that evening by this Doc with 3 different anti-biotics plus letter of referral to her local clinic to have daily dressings. It turned out that when she 1st presented to this Clinic she was also allergic to another type of plaster put on her under-arm. Also the wick fell out, and the Nurse put a fresh one in. The Nurse also observed that her disovable stitches had not disolved, and she removed them also. She's still attendiing clinic each day for fresh dressings. To see Doctor in Outpatients some time this week.</p> <p>I believe our Hospitals look after patients by bits and pieces. HSE declared long ago Centres of excellence, shu she and he are attending one of them.</p> <p>Chrissie</p> <p><img title="Cry" src="/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-cry.gif" border="0" alt="Cry" />&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>


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